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Usenet Posted 19 years ago
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How do you really pronounce macabre?
In American English, how should we really pronounce "macabre?"
A friend insists on pronouncing the penultimate letter "r" ever so slightly ... while I'm of the strong opinion this vestigal consonent should be wholly & thankfully silent.
My generally wishy-washy dictionary disappointed me (again) by ambivalently promulgating the irresolute triad of (a) muh-kah-bruh, (b) muh-kahb, and (c) muh-kah-ber.
Oi vei! Such weasly waffling bothers me immensly.
Digging further and farther, the American Heritage Dictionary seems just as undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) mÉ?-kä'brÉ?, (b) mÉ?-käb', and (c) mÉ?-kä'bÉ?r.
Oi vai iz mir, what dither. May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not?
That is, a Frenchman (Macabre), aLatin (Maccabaeus), or a Greek (Makkabios) pronounce the "r" or not? Should we?
Thanks, in advance, for your astute advice,
Emily
A friend insists on pronouncing the penultimate letter "r" ever so slightly ... while I'm of the strong opinion this vestigal consonent should be wholly & thankfully silent.
My generally wishy-washy dictionary disappointed me (again) by ambivalently promulgating the irresolute triad of (a) muh-kah-bruh, (b) muh-kahb, and (c) muh-kah-ber.
Oi vei! Such weasly waffling bothers me immensly.
Digging further and farther, the American Heritage Dictionary seems just as undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) mÉ?-kä'brÉ?, (b) mÉ?-käb', and (c) mÉ?-kä'bÉ?r.
Oi vai iz mir, what dither. May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not?
That is, a Frenchman (Macabre), aLatin (Maccabaeus), or a Greek (Makkabios) pronounce the "r" or not? Should we?
Thanks, in advance, for your astute advice,
Emily
Top answer
=2E. [nq:1]undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'br=C9==99, (b) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4b', and (c) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'b=C9=99r. [/nq] (Post uneasy to plod through, what with all the interference and the idiotic dictionary umlauts) [nq:1]May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not?
- =2E.
- [nq:1]undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'br=C9==99, (b) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4b', and (c) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'b=C9=99r.
- [/nq] (Post uneasy to plod through, what with all the interference and the idiotic dictionary umlauts) [nq:1]May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not?
- That is, a Frenchman (Macabre), aLatin (Maccabaeus), or a Greek (Makkabio=s) pronounce the "r" or not?
- [/nq] What on Earth is the Greek (that, if it ever mentioned such a word as Makkaba=C3=ADos, only mentioned it as an exotic loan just like you talk of Ornithorhynchus) doing in that list?
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37 Answers
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.=2E.
[nq:1]undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'br=C9==99, (b) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4b', and (c) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'b=C9=99r. Oi vai iz mir, what dither.[/nq]
(Post uneasy to plod through, what with all the interference and the idiotic dictionary umlauts)
[nq:1]May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not? That is, a Frenchman (Macabre),
[nq:1]undecisive, proposing the now-familiar ternion (a) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'br=C9==99, (b) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4b', and (c) m=C9=99-k=C3=A4'b=C9=99r. Oi vai iz mir, what dither.[/nq]
(Post uneasy to plod through, what with all the interference and the idiotic dictionary umlauts)
[nq:1]May I ask would the original proponents have prounounced the "r" or not? That is, a Frenchman (Macabre),
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[nq:1]So the only origin has the ...[/nq]
Looking deeper than the French supposed origin, I've found macabre perhaps to really be of Jewish origin ... an origin which doesn't have an .
"Macabre is first recorded in the phrase 'Macabrees daunce' in a work written around 1430 by John Lydgate. Macabree was thought by Lydgate to be the name of a French author, but in fact he misunderstoo
Looking deeper than the French supposed origin, I've found macabre perhaps to really be of Jewish origin ... an origin which doesn't have an .
"Macabre is first recorded in the phrase 'Macabrees daunce' in a work written around 1430 by John Lydgate. Macabree was thought by Lydgate to be the name of a French author, but in fact he misunderstoo
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[nq:2]So the only origin has the ...[/nq]
[nq:1]Looking deeper than the French supposed origin, I've found macabre perhaps to really be of Jewish origin ... an origin which doesn't have an .[/nq]
Yeah, all that and more BS was duly considered in the response where the probability of an etymon in Arabic maqber was definitely higher. As for Lydgate etc, totally irrelevant, as he took it fro
[nq:1]Looking deeper than the French supposed origin, I've found macabre perhaps to really be of Jewish origin ... an origin which doesn't have an .[/nq]
Yeah, all that and more BS was duly considered in the response where the probability of an etymon in Arabic maqber was definitely higher. As for Lydgate etc, totally irrelevant, as he took it fro
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[nq:2]Looking deeper than the French supposed origin, I've found macabre perhaps to really be of Jewish origin ... an origin which doesn't have an .[/nq]
[nq:1]Yeah, all that and more BS was duly considered in the response where the probability of an etymon in Arabic maqber was definitely higher.[/nq]
Not according to OED (which is also very clear that the British pronunciation has an "r")
[nq:1]Yeah, all that and more BS was duly considered in the response where the probability of an etymon in Arabic maqber was definitely higher.[/nq]
Not according to OED (which is also very clear that the British pronunciation has an "r")
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[nq:1]the probability of an etymon in Arabic maqber was definitely higher.[/nq]
P=2ES. on that: That remains just one probability, and seems not to be a majority favorite.
The candidates:
- An alleged (also possibly after-the fact invention) "chora macchabaeorum" in an earlier writing explaining most of the Fr form (but not the early spoken final /e/).
- A pronounced /e/ at the end
P=2ES. on that: That remains just one probability, and seems not to be a majority favorite.
The candidates:
- An alleged (also possibly after-the fact invention) "chora macchabaeorum" in an earlier writing explaining most of the Fr form (but not the early spoken final /e/).
- A pronounced /e/ at the end
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On Aug 18, 10:04 pm, LFS .=2E.
[nq:1]There is no evidence to support the theory that the word derives from Arabic maq{amac}bir, plural of maqbara cemetery (Moroccan ... summaries of further explanations which have been advanced see Tr=E9sor de la Langue Fran=E7aise s.v., Franz=F6sisches Etymol. W=F6rterbuch loc. cit.).=2E.[/nq]
Posted simultaneously.
One thing, though: That "there is
[nq:1]There is no evidence to support the theory that the word derives from Arabic maq{amac}bir, plural of maqbara cemetery (Moroccan ... summaries of further explanations which have been advanced see Tr=E9sor de la Langue Fran=E7aise s.v., Franz=F6sisches Etymol. W=F6rterbuch loc. cit.).=2E.[/nq]
Posted simultaneously.
One thing, though: That "there is
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[nq:1]In American English, how should we really pronounce "macabre?" A friend insists on pronouncing the penultimate letter "r" ever soslightly ... My generally wishy-washy dictionary disappointed me (again) byambivalently promulgating the irresolute triad of (a) muh-kah-bruh, (b) muh-kahb, and (c) muh-kah-ber.[/nq]
b,
b,
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[nq:1]There is no evidence to support any of the other theories, either[/nq]
The story begins with the fresco of the Dance Macabre painted in 1424 in the Church of the Innocents at Paris. The English poet and monk John Lydgate knew (of) the fresco and (his) text accompanying the picture - a line from his translation of the French verse - contains the earliest attested occurrence of dance macab
The story begins with the fresco of the Dance Macabre painted in 1424 in the Church of the Innocents at Paris. The English poet and monk John Lydgate knew (of) the fresco and (his) text accompanying the picture - a line from his translation of the French verse - contains the earliest attested occurrence of dance macab
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[nq:2]There is no evidence to support any of the other theories, either[/nq]
[nq:1]I found on the web a blog which denigrates both the Arabic & Hebrew originshttp://blog.oup.com/2006/09/september glean/where it[/nq]
And repeated most of the material
[nq:1]However, most researchers believe that macabre g
[nq:1]I found on the web a blog which denigrates both the Arabic & Hebrew originshttp://blog.oup.com/2006/09/september glean/where it[/nq]
And repeated most of the material
[nq:1]However, most researchers believe that macabre g
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[nq:1]In American English, how should we really pronounce "macabre?" A friend insists on pronouncing the penultimate letter "r" ever so ... generally wishy-washy dictionary disappointed me (again) by ambivalently promulgating the irresolute triad of (a) muh-kah-bruh, (b) muh-kahb, and (c) muh-kah-ber.[/nq]
Since I am not a big fan of retaining French pronunciations of imported words, I pronoun
Since I am not a big fan of retaining French pronunciations of imported words, I pronoun
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