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Usenet Posted 19 years ago
Usage
Hortatory subjunctive
What is the hortatory subjunctive?
In hearings today by the House Oversight and something committee, the witness and a congressman argued about verb tense.
She had said that sometimes she gets her tenses wrong. The congressman said there are only 3 tenses, past present and future. She said there waw present perfect, pluperect aand some others.
Then my mind wandered and she was saying somethin about the hortatory subjunctive.
The next Congressman said that his mother was an English teacher or professor, and the sentence the witness gave was not the hortatory subjunctive. He said a sentence of that sort might be "How can we help?"
I think this is a question in the present tense. Even if it refers to actions that will in fact be done in the future.
"Would that he be a help to us" sounds like the hortatory subjuntive to me, and other than the sentiment expressed, it's nothing like "How can we help?"
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
In hearings today by the House Oversight and something committee, the witness and a congressman argued about verb tense.
She had said that sometimes she gets her tenses wrong. The congressman said there are only 3 tenses, past present and future. She said there waw present perfect, pluperect aand some others.
Then my mind wandered and she was saying somethin about the hortatory subjunctive.
The next Congressman said that his mother was an English teacher or professor, and the sentence the witness gave was not the hortatory subjunctive. He said a sentence of that sort might be "How can we help?"
I think this is a question in the present tense. Even if it refers to actions that will in fact be done in the future.
"Would that he be a help to us" sounds like the hortatory subjuntive to me, and other than the sentiment expressed, it's nothing like "How can we help?"
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Top answer
[/nq] The imperative, in its "let us ~~" form, only used in the first person. " It's worth forgetting, because we have near-identical constructs for second person: "Let it be," being the most famous. So it's either a construct that has been extended to include the second-person usage, or it's a construct that already encompassed the second-person usage, and some twit (probably a Cypriot) decided to ignore the second-person stuff, and lay it down as a first-person "law".
- [/nq] The imperative, in its "let us ~~" form, only used in the first person.
- " It's worth forgetting, because we have near-identical constructs for second person: "Let it be," being the most famous.
- So it's either a construct that has been extended to include the second-person usage, or it's a construct that already encompassed the second-person usage, and some twit (probably a Cypriot) decided to ignore the second-person stuff, and lay it down as a first-person "law".
- Just call it an imperative form, since that's exactly what it is; save yourself the bother.
- [nq:1]In hearings today by the House Oversight and something committee, the witness and a congressman argued about verb tense.
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30 Answers
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[nq:1]What is the hortatory subjunctive?[/nq]
The imperative, in its "let us ~~" form, only used in the first person. "Let me/us alone!"
It's worth forgetting, because we have near-identical constructs for second person:
"Let it be,"
being the most famous.
So it's either a construct that has been extended to include the second-person usage, or it's a construct that already enco
The imperative, in its "let us ~~" form, only used in the first person. "Let me/us alone!"
It's worth forgetting, because we have near-identical constructs for second person:
"Let it be,"
being the most famous.
So it's either a construct that has been extended to include the second-person usage, or it's a construct that already enco
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{snip}
[nq:2]She had said that sometimes she gets her tenses wrong. The congressman said there are only 3 tenses, past present and future.[/nq]
[nq:1]The congressman was wrong. English has only two tenses: Past and Present. There is no future tense, in English.[/nq]
If you mean that there is no distinct verb form for the future tense, I'll agree with you. We do express a future tense i
[nq:2]She had said that sometimes she gets her tenses wrong. The congressman said there are only 3 tenses, past present and future.[/nq]
[nq:1]The congressman was wrong. English has only two tenses: Past and Present. There is no future tense, in English.[/nq]
If you mean that there is no distinct verb form for the future tense, I'll agree with you. We do express a future tense i
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[nq:1]{snip}[/nq]
[nq:2]The congressman was wrong. English has only two tenses: Past and Present. There is no future tense, in English.[/nq]
[nq:1]If you mean that there is no distinct verb form for the future tense, I'll agree with you. We do express a future tense in English, we just do it by sticking "will" in front of the verb. I will go to work tomorrow.[/nq]
That's still not a te
[nq:2]The congressman was wrong. English has only two tenses: Past and Present. There is no future tense, in English.[/nq]
[nq:1]If you mean that there is no distinct verb form for the future tense, I'll agree with you. We do express a future tense in English, we just do it by sticking "will" in front of the verb. I will go to work tomorrow.[/nq]
That's still not a te
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[nq:1]That's still not a tense; a tense is a "time". We speak of the future with various nuances.[/nq]
Mark, you are wrong. Tense is not time, although sometimes they are used interchangeably. look at the following sentence:
The train leaves tomorrow night.
What is the tense? Surely that's presnet. Simple present to be precise. But how about the time? That's future, isn't it? Tech
Mark, you are wrong. Tense is not time, although sometimes they are used interchangeably. look at the following sentence:
The train leaves tomorrow night.
What is the tense? Surely that's presnet. Simple present to be precise. But how about the time? That's future, isn't it? Tech
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[nq:1]What is the hortatory subjunctive?[/nq]
English has no hortatory subjunctive. Greek did (I don't know whether it's retained in Modern Greek).
English has no hortatory subjunctive. Greek did (I don't know whether it's retained in Modern Greek).
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[nq:2]{snip} If you mean that there is no distinct verb ... front of the verb. I will go to work tomorrow.[/nq]
[nq:1]That's still not a tense; a tense is a "time". We speak of the future with various nuances.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -[/nq]
Yes folks, you heard it here first. English has no future! :-o
[nq:1]That's still not a tense; a tense is a "time". We speak of the future with various nuances.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -[/nq]
Yes folks, you heard it here first. English has no future! :-o
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[nq:2]That's still not a tense; a tense is a "time". We speak of the future with various nuances.[/nq]
[nq:1]Mark, you are wrong. Tense is not time, although sometimes they are used interchangeably. look at the following sentence: The ... Continuous, Perfect, and Perfect Continuous. So, how many tenses do you think English has? Right! There are twelve of them.[/nq]
Do you understand what "
[nq:1]Mark, you are wrong. Tense is not time, although sometimes they are used interchangeably. look at the following sentence: The ... Continuous, Perfect, and Perfect Continuous. So, how many tenses do you think English has? Right! There are twelve of them.[/nq]
Do you understand what "
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[nq:2]What is the hortatory subjunctive?[/nq]
[nq:1]English has no hortatory subjunctive. Greek did (I don't know whether it's retained in Modern Greek).[/nq]
Actually, Greek doesn't. That's one of the reasons why the Latin freaks tried to impose one in English.
[nq:1]English has no hortatory subjunctive. Greek did (I don't know whether it's retained in Modern Greek).[/nq]
Actually, Greek doesn't. That's one of the reasons why the Latin freaks tried to impose one in English.
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[nq:1]... And, before you come back here with your "there are twelve tenses!" garbage, try reading a /real/ English grammar. The one you're using obviously falls far wide of the mark.[/nq]
Care to recommend one ... only the first 50 odd manuals and guides that I've sampled online plus the BBC and The British Council are all falling 'far wide of the mark'. Where should I go to learn this wisdom
Care to recommend one ... only the first 50 odd manuals and guides that I've sampled online plus the BBC and The British Council are all falling 'far wide of the mark'. Where should I go to learn this wisdom
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[nq:2]English has no hortatory subjunctive. Greek did (I don't know whether it's retained in Modern Greek).[/nq]
[nq:1]Actually, Greek doesn't. That's one of the reasons why the Latin freaks tried to impose one in English.[/nq]
Sorry, are you you saying that Greek never did or that it currently doesn't?
[nq:1]Actually, Greek doesn't. That's one of the reasons why the Latin freaks tried to impose one in English.[/nq]
Sorry, are you you saying that Greek never did or that it currently doesn't?
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