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Usenet Posted 23 years ago
Usage

Hemmingway's Secret

Here's something no one knew until yesterday:


In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive cross-dresser ridiculed by his macho father who later had a sex-change operation but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression.


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=447752

What a difference the lacking comma makes.

Simon R. Hughes
  

Top answer

[nq:1]Here's something no one knew until yesterday: In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive ... ***-change operation but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression. [/nq] Actually, I think a pair of commas is needed, to set off "ridiculed by his macho father".

  • [nq:1]Here's something no one knew until yesterday: In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive ...
  • ***-change operation but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression.
  • [/nq] Actually, I think a pair of commas is needed, to set off "ridiculed by his macho father".
  • Even then it's easy to take the false scent.
  • Moving the relative pronoun would fix it, I reckon: In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive cross-dresser who, ridiculed by his macho father, later had a ***-change operation, but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression.
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11 Answers
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[nq:1]Here's something no one knew until yesterday:

In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive ... ***-change operation but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=4477
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Thus spake Michael West:
[nq:2]Here's something no one knew until yesterday:

In life, ... depression.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=447752 What a difference the lacking comma makes.[/nq]
[nq:1]Actually, I think a pair of commas is ne
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[nq:2]Here's something no one knew until yesterday:

In life, ... depression.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=447752 What a difference the lacking comma makes.[/nq]
[nq:1]Actually, I think a pair of commas is needed, to set off "ridiculed b
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[nq:1]Thus spake Michael West:[/nq]
[nq:2]Actually, I think a pair of commas is needed, to ... manic depression. (I also stuck in a comma after "operation").[/nq]
[nq:1]You have made the ridicule a/ the cause of the *** change. That conjecture is not so strongly present in the original. Mind you, you have toned down the manic depression as a cause.[/nq]
Didn't realize I'd done all that
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Thus spake Michael West:
[nq:2]Thus spake Michael West: You have made the ridicule a/ ... you have toned down the manic depression as a cause.[/nq]
[nq:1]Didn't realize I'd done all that![/nq]
On second thought, I'm not sure you did tone down the manic depression as a cause.
[nq:1]But I don't think there's any way to fix the sentence that does not involve getting that relati
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[nq:1]In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, a furtive cross-dresser who, ridiculed by his macho father, later had a ***-change operation, but never overcame a lifelong struggle with manic depression. (I also stuck in a comma after "operation").[/nq]
And I would remove it.

Dena Jo
(Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)
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[nq:2]In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, ... manic depression. (I also stuck in a comma after "operation").[/nq]
[nq:1]And I would remove it.[/nq]
Removing it seems to make explicit the
implied connection between manic depression
and the *** change. If this connection is intended, then removing the comma is a good idea. But if
the writer doesn't w
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The inimitable Dena Jo stated one day
[nq:2]In life, Ernest Hemingway's son Gregory was a tortured character, ... manic depression. (I also stuck in a comma after "operation").[/nq]
[nq:1]And I would remove it.[/nq]
Me too. It screws up the meaning.
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[nq:2]And I would remove it.[/nq]
[nq:1]Me too. It screws up the meaning.[/nq]
If "the meaning" is that his ***-change operation
was an attempt to overcome manic depression
(can you "overcome" a "struggle", by the way?),
then I agree.
If you don't mean that, I don't know what you mean by "the meaning".

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
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The inimitable "Michael West" (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:1]If "the meaning" is that his ***-change operation was an attempt to overcome manic depression (can you "overcome" a "struggle", by the way?), then I agree.[/nq]
Yes, that seems to be what the writer is implying here. I don't know whether it is true or not.
I agree that "overcame a lifelong struggle with depression" isn'

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