Help! - noun clauses

Question

I'm really stuck. OK, so. I know what a noun clauses is and how it is dependent on a main clause. I know that it functions as a noun, however my text book looks at putting noun clauses at the beginning of a sentence because it makes the sentence more emphatic and when we do this, it begins with a question word; what, who, how, where.... OK, all of this I understand as well.

The problem is, the course book goes on to give a number of examples and makes a differentiation between "noun clauses about a subject" and noun clauses "about an object" - I can't seem to make any differentiation as i believe that the noun clauses is the subject in all of the sentences. Can anyone explain ????

OK so the students book states that these are noun clauses about a subject:

1. (What's really difficult for them) is getting their first job
2. (Who gets the best job very often) depends on already having

and that these sentences are noun clauses about an object:

1. (What students need) is good work experience
2.( where you get your first job) can influence your whole future career
3. (How students prepare for work) is so important

Can anyone explain to me the difference between these two sets of noun clauses? To me the noun clause are all at the beginning of the sentence, act as subject followed by the objects e.g. good work experince, is so important?

help ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?????????

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

1. (What's really difficult for them) is getting their first job.
2. (Who gets the best job) very often depends on already having ... what?
1. (What students need) is good work experience.
2.( Where you get your first job) can influence your whole future career.
3. (How students prepare for work) is so important.

They are all subjects. They're not even "about subjects"; they aresubjects.

johnbytheseaTo me the noun clauses are all at the beginning of the sentence and act as subjects

Correct. All that talk about being "about an object" is nonsense.

CJ

Johnbythesea · Answer

Well to be honest that's what I think, but it doesn't help with getting through my textbook <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/6.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/6.gif' alt='Emotion: sad'/>

CalifJim · Answer

johnbytheseaWell to be honest that's what I think, but it doesn't help with getting through my textbook

It's possible that the topic won't come up much as you read further in the book. Let's hope.

CJ

Englishmaven · Answer

1. (What students need) is good work experience.

I think the author of the text was thinking that this sentence is an inversion of

Students need good work experience. The author is figuring that "experience" is the object of "need."
Good work experience is needed by students. The passive sentence puts the direct object in the subject position. The subject is not the agent; it is the object of the verb "need." The agent is distinguished from the grammatical subject of the sentence.

Of course, it is NOT the object in the sample sentence because the grammar is different. The sentence set-up is different.

What students need is good work experience. "What students need" is the subject of the verb "is."
Good work experience is what students need. "...what students need" is predicate nominative/subject complement.

(Where you get your first job) can influence your whole future career.

Your whole career can be influenced by where you get your first job. "where you get your first job" is the object of the preposition "by." In the passive sentence, the direct object of the verb is the subject of the sentence. Maybe that is what the textbook is getting at. The prepositional phrase with "by" tells us the agent, the doer of the verb. I looks to me like the author of the book got mixed up with all this.

Johnbythesea · Answer

I think your about right, i think it was asking whether the question word (where, what, who, how) was the subject or object in the noun clause, separate to the structure of the sentence. Oh what joy we have!

Johnbythesea · Answer

.. and that you all for the help, much appreciated! x

AlpheccaStars · Answer

johnbythesea I think it was asking whether the question word (where, what, who, how) was the subject or object in the noun clause,

That is a completely different question than the grammatical function of the entire clause.

1. (What's really difficult for them) is getting their first job.
2. (Who gets the best job very often) depends on already having one.

The subjects within the clauses are underlined
What is really difficult for them ...
Who gets the best job

1. (What students need) is good work experience
2.( where you get your first job) can influence your whole future career
3. (How students prepare for work) is so important

The subjects within the clauses are underlined.
What students need (What is the object of need.
Where you get your first job (Where is an adverb; job is the object of get..)
How students prepare for work (How is an adverb. There is no object.)

Help! - noun clauses

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