Help for since clause, thanks

Question

Hi:I've got some problems on the usage of since clause (since here is subject to temporal reading).Scenario:I visited the USA in 1998, in 1999 and in 2000.Sentence:1. I have visited the USA 3 times since 1996.The question is: can I say the above sentence under the scenario I described? Or it is better to change the sentence to "I have visited the USA 3 times since 1998".The other question which is very similar to the first one:2. Tony has been ill since last sunday.does 2 indicate that Tony's being ill started some time on last sunday? Or his being ill could start earlier or later than last sunday, say last friday and this monday respectively.To put it simpler, to a sentence with since+t, does the time t have anything to do with the event time (happenning time or occurance time) of the matrix clause? If they do have certain realationship, does t coincide with the event time of the matrix clause? For example, in 2, t (last sunday)=the time tony started to be ill.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

1. I have visited the USA 3 times since 1996.
The question is: can I say the above sentence under the scenario I described? Yes, you can.
Or it is better to change the sentence to "I have visited the USA 3 times since 1998". Not really. It's fine as is. You went in 1998, so you have gone two times since (the time you went in) 1998, not three.

2. Tony has been ill since last sunday.
does 2 indicate that Tony's being ill started some time on last sunday? Yes. That's the implication.
Or his being ill could start earlier or later than last sunday, say last friday and this monday respectively. Technically, his being ill could have started earlier, but the implication is that it started on Sunday.

To put it simpler, to a sentence with since+t, does the time t have anything to do with the event time (happenning time or occurance time) of the matrix clause? If they do have certain realationship, does t coincide with the event time of the matrix clause? For example, in 2, t (last sunday)=the time tony started to be ill. You're trying to turn language into mathematical formulas. It usually doesn't work.
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since t means something like if you start the clock at t.

If you have visited the USA three times since 1996, but never before that, then you have also visited the USA three times since 1945, and you have visited the USA three times since 1597, and you have visited the USA three times since 1356, and so on. While all of them are true, there is no point, in a conversation, of mentioning any year but a year close to the range of years you are particularly interested in.

If you have been ill since Sunday, but not before that, then you have also been ill since Monday, and you have been ill since Tuesday, and you have been ill since Wednesday, and so on, until today. While all of them are true, there is no point, in a conversation, of mentioning any day but a day close to the full range of days when you have been ill.

Don't confuse word meaning (the more mathematically precise meaning) with conversational meaning (the more informative meaning). When we converse with others, we normally impart no more nor less information than is necessary and sufficient for clarity. For clarity, not just truth. That's why we wouldn't say I have visited the USA three times since 1842 (too much information - too great a range), and why, if we got ill on Sunday, we wouldn't say I have been ill since Tuesday (too little information - too small a range). Both statements are true, but neither is as clear as it could be.

CJ

Billyxu · Answer

Thank you for your reply, CJ. It's really cogent and helpful.<img src="http://www.EnglishForward.com/emoticons/emotion-1.gif"/>

Billyxu · Answer

Hi, CJ:
Could you please help me with 2 other since clause? Are the following sentences correct?
1. Tony has been happy since he has visited the Cape.
2. The good china will be out. The slipcovers will be on. Mom will have cleaned the house several times since my arrival.
I have post a relative thread concerning sentence 1 a week ago , but I am still confused, so I put it up again.

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Help for since clause, thanks

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