He wouldn't have been

Question

Hello,Could you please help me understand a line from a show I was watching last night?[The body of an 11-year-old boy, Danny, was found at the foot of a cliff. The detectives are now talking to the family]Mother - Was it an accident? Did he fall?Det. - We don't know yet. Can you think why he might have been up on the cliffs last night?Mother - He wouldn't have been. Father - He obviously was.Mother - He didn't have any reason to be.I'm not sure I understand the underlined sentence. The only thing I can think of is another line I remember asking about almost a year ago:- It makes sense that you would want to take some time off.At the time CalifJim gave me the name of that type of "would". Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that old post.Does he wouldn't have been mean It doesn't make sense that he would have been there?Thank you for your helpH.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Henry74Det. - Can you think why he might have been up on the cliffs last night? - He wouldn't have been.

This is a near analog of the following, which is presented without the modal verbs that connote more remote possibilities:

— Can you think why (maybe) he was up on the cliffs last night?
— He wasn't (there).

The response is a denial of the presupposition within the question.

I can't find that post either, but your paraphrase with "doesn't make sense that" is close enough. There is no reason to suppose that he [was / would have been] there. It's the idea of supposition that brings in the modal.

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

Thank you Jim.

So, would is connected to might. Is the following a plausible paraphrasis?

- Can you think of a reason he might have had to be up on the cliffs last night?
- He wouldn't have had one.

It seems to be. I think I'm beginning to understand.
I'm still struggling when I susbstitute be for have because I lose a direct translation into my language.

If, instead of someone who died, we were talking about someone who might be on the cliffs right now, could the following be said?

- Can you think why he might be up on the cliffs?
- He wouldn't be

Is it possible to go one step further and have a dialogue that features He won't be as a reply?
I'm trying to backtrack from a complex to a simple construction with the same intended meaning to see if simplicity can help me get to the core of the meaning.

H.

Khoff · Answer

Henry74If, instead of someone who died, we were talking about someone who might be on the cliffs right now, could the following be said?- Can you think why he might be up on the cliffs?- He wouldn't be

Yes, that's fine.

Henry74Is it possible to go one step further and have a dialogue that features He won't be as a reply?

If John is at home when you get there, ask him to call me right away.

He won't be. He's working late tonight.

Henry74 · Answer

khoffHe won't be. He's working late tonight.

Oh, I see. It's that kind of "will".

I've been thinking about it. I believe in my language I would say [literally translated]
- That's unlikely. He's working late tonight.

Would you accept that as a paraphrasis?

H.

Khoff · Answer

Yes, that's a reasonable paraphrase.

Johnson13 · Answer

Does your answer mean that if we refer to a past situation with the meaning of 'it was impossible', we must use WOULD HAVE DONE, but not WOUlD DO?

CalifJim · Answer

Henry74Is the following a plausible paraphrasis?- Can you think of a reason he might have had to be up on the cliffs last night?- He wouldn't have had one.

Yes. It's plausible to me.

Henry74If ... we were talking about someone who might be on the cliffs right now, could the following be said?- Can you think why he might be up on the cliffs?- He wouldn't be

Yes.

Henry74I'm trying to backtrack from a complex to a simple construction with the same intended meaning to see if simplicity can help me get to the core of the meaning.

That's a reasonable method, but you're running into a problem that may be peculiar to English.

Present/Past pairs:

can/could
will/would
may/might
could/could have
would/would have
may/may have
might/might have

You may be looking for this:

- Can you think why he is up on the cliffs?
- He won't be.

But I'm not sure how that helps. I'll have to think about this some more.

CJ

Khoff · Answer

CalifJim I'll have to think about this some more.

Oh, good -- it was starting to hurt my head!

CalifJim · Answer

khoffOh, good -- it was starting to hurt my head!

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

CJ

Henry74 · Answer

CalifJim- Can you think why he is up on the cliffs?- He won't be.

Yes. I actually formed that exchange in my head but I wasn't sure if it was correct.

It is not uncommon, in Italian, to start a sentence with a phrase expressing the likelihood of what is being said.
It is likely/unlikely that, most likely, etc.

I've always refrained from doing so in English because I could see that it was not a native's preference.
Perhaps this is a case where English does with verbs what Italian does with adverbs.

Would you accept a paraphrase of this kind?

a) Can you think why he is up on the cliffs?
b) It's unlikely that he is. or
b1) It's impossible that he is.
Wherein "impossible" is not thought of as logical impossibility, rather the speaker's perspective. As if saying

b1) It's impossible that he is. He never goes up there. Besides, it's 10 am. He's at school in the morning.

--------------

Another ten minutes into the same episode there is another "would have been" construction with a similar meaning.
The detectives are speaking with the Medical Examiner.

M.E. - The pattern of bruises suggests large hands. I'd suggest a male. It would have been brutal. The angle suggests he would have been facing his attacker.

Would you agree to a similiar paraphrase?

- In all likelihood it was brutal. He was most likely facing his attacker.

I hope this is a correct interpretation. It would be a huge step in understanding for me. I could start using will and derivates to express a range of things I've always wanted to say but never knew how.

Thank you
H.

He wouldn't have been

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