he would not survive the year 1986

Question

If Lorenzo Odone wer believed to die before 1986, then he would not survive until 1986.

Does the underlined part sound right? If not, how about the following? Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

..., then he would not survive the year 1986.
..., then he would not live on till 1986.

BarbaraPA · Accepted Answer

Anon, if the person died BEFORE 1986, then he was not alive at all, in any part of in 1986. Therefore, it's illogical to say "He would not survive the year 1986," which implies he died sometime in (not before) 1986.

There's no difference in saying "until 1986" or "till 1986."

But I don't really understand the second part of your sentence. Why is it necessary to say it at all if you have already just said that he died before 1986?

Anonymous · Answer

Grammar GeekAnon, if the person died BEFORE 1986, then he was not alive at all, in any part of in 1986. Therefore, it's illogical to say "He would not survive the year 1986," which implies he died sometime in (not before) 1986.

There's no difference in saying "until 1986" or "till 1986."

But I don't really understand the second part of your sentence. Why is it necessary to say it at all if you have already just said that he died before 1986?

Thanks, GG.

It's me, Angliholic.

I forgot to log in.

The first part of the sentence is an explanation of a condition, and my problem is on the second part. How should I write the second part right in the case of the first part?

BarbaraPA · Answer

Well, log in, woncha (won't you?)?

Okay, the first part was just to let us know what the facts were, and the second part is what you really want to write.

The problem with the phrase "He did/was not X until [year]" is that our brain hears that as when he started to do X: He wasn't born until 1945. She didn't play the tuba until 1999. She didn't run any marathons until 1995. Those all tell us when something started.

So it seems an immediate disconnect when you hear "He didn't survive until 1986." Your brain wants to think that something started in 1986, not that something ended. It's not grammatically wrong, but your reader will have to go back and read it again.

The simplest thing to do is say "He died before 1986." or "His death occurred before 1986." More colloquially, "He didn't make it to 1986, when his invention really took off and his name became known in households across America."

Does that make any sense?

Angliholic · Answer

Thanks, GG.

he would not survive the year 1986

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