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Norwolf Posted 14 years ago
Grammar

Having won

1# *The man having won the race is my brother.
2# The man winning the race is my brother.
3# The man who has won the race is my brother.
I have learnt this: 1# is incorrect. To express the meaning correctly, we say 3#.
My question is whether we can mean the same thing as 3# by saying 2#, because the V-ing can express something referring to the past.
I would appreciate it if you share your wonderful ideas with me.
Thank you very much.
  

Top answer

-- That is OK, too, but it is still not the usual: the simple past is, I think. -- #2 has a different meaning: it refers to the race in progress now; there is no winner yet/

— Mister Micawber

  • -- That is OK, too, but it is still not the usual: the simple past is, I think.
  • -- #2 has a different meaning: it refers to the race in progress now; there is no winner yet/
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10 Answers
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I have learnt this: 1# is incorrect.-- #1 is not wrong at all; it is just not the usual, which is 'The man who won the race...'

To express the meaning correctly, we say 3#.-- That is OK, too, but it is still not the usual: the simple past is, I think.

My question is whether we can mean the same thing as 3# by saying 2#, because the V-ing can express something referr
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Mister Micawber #1 is not wrong at all;
#1 sound wrong to me. Perhaps it is possible only in American English. It's fine in British English when it's non-defining:

The man, having won the race, disappeared into the crowd.
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An across-the-pond difference perhaps. A little unusual but I cannot fault it.
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The man, having won the race, disappeared into the crowd. OK in American English.

The man having won the race is my brother. This seems implausible in American English. I would never use this.
Having won the race, the man is my brother. This seems incorrect. Winning a race does not make him my brother (unless I mean something that is not a blood relation!)
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What do you teachers think of this one:
5# The man winning the race yesterday is my brother.
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norwolfWhat do you teachers think of this one:5# The man winning the race yesterday is my brother.
Same deal. I think it is understandable and just barely possible, but nobody I know would ever put it that way. It's "The man who won the race ...".
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I agree that the original is odd, but I have yet to see anyone offer a reason; that's why I said I could not fault it.
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Mister Micawber I have yet to see anyone offer a reason
I think that (present) participle phrases directly following a noun are roughly equivalent in meaning to a defining relative clause containing an appropriately tensed progressive form. In my examples below, I have selected different situations from 'winning a race'. It just happens that it is no
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fivejedjonThat being so, the perfect participle is simply not used. It would add a an idea of retrospection/completion that is already supplied
Aha! Good reasoning. Thanks, 5jj.
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Mister MicawberGood reasoning.
I'd like to stress that this is only what I think. I haven't yet been able to find anything in grammars or style guides to support it.
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