has or had?

Question

StartFragment&gt;"Survey forms were distributed to a selection of junior high school students in Gyeonggi-do who were in the age group that has/had the greatest number of runaway cases."I think it should be 'had', but I want to make sure.

Rotter · Accepted Answer

The distribution of survey forms is a past event.
I would write 'had' in this context.

CalifJim · Answer

Based on your reasoning, had seems the better choice.

CJ

Mkyol · Answer

CalifJim, are you suggesting that 'has' is possible gramatically too?

CalifJim · Answer

Survey forms were distributed to a selection of junior high school students in Gyeonggi-do who were in the age group that has the greatest number of runaway cases.

It's possible grammatically, but it's not so clear that it makes a good sentence semantically. That is, with an entirely different sentence about an entirely different subject, it is possible to combine were with has, so there's nothing grammatically wrong with the combination.

The students who were so tired yesterday are in the group that has the highest scores on today's exam.

Nevertheless, from the point of view of meaning, that combination doesn't work well in the sentence we've been discussing.

As written at the top of this post, the sentence would mean this: Forms were distributed to students who were (at the time of the distribution) in the age group that (now, at the time of writing this sentence) has the greatest number of runaway cases. This version seems to imply that the age group that had (then) the greatest number of cases differs from the age group that has (now) the greatest number of cases. If that really is the meaning, then that combination should be used.

On the other hand, if the age group that had the greatest number of runaway cases (at the time of the distribution) is the same age group that still has the greatest number of runaway cases (i.e., the range of ages is the same at the time of the distribution as at the time of writing) -- and this is what most readers will assume --, then it doesn't make any difference whether you say has or had, but, if that's true, then just for the sake of consistency between the two tenses, most writers would match the tenses and use were and had.

That's why has is possible, but had is more likely to be better.

CJ

Mkyol · Answer

Thanks for taking time to explain this thoroughly CJ, it makes a lot of sense <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Goodman · Answer

I think it should be 'had', but I want to make sure.

Hi Mkyol,

Beside using "had" or "has", I think we can simply use a preposition to express relatively the same thing. Just a thought ....

"Survey forms were distributed to a selection of junior high school students in Gyeonggi-do who were in the age group with the greatest number of runaway cases."

Anonymous · Answer

Ah, that's like avoiding the problem altogether! Thanks for the advice Goodman.

Goodman · Answer

AnonymousAh, that's like avoiding the problem altogether! Thanks for the advice Goodman.

There are always different ways to interprete and express the same thing. No, I was not avoiding the problem. It wasn't a problem to me anyway.

I merely pointed out an alternative. One should realize. English learning is governed by grammar rules but within these rules, there is flexibility which allows us to express individually.

Mkyol · Answer

Hm, I didn't mean it as a negative thing, when I said 'it's like avoiding the problem altogether'.

I merely meant it was an alternative solution.

Anyways, thanks for your input

(hmm, I'm not perfectly certain if this sentence is what I want to express also, lol)

has or had?

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