"Has gone to" in AmEng.

Question

HiCNN: Quote:"Let me ask you this, though, Scott. As a practical matter, hasn't the independent prosecution been something of a failure? What do we have? They spent $ 40 million. We have Ollie for security fence which he shouldn't have taken, convicted on that, convicted of deceiving Congress. Nobody has gone to jail."In AmEng, does "nobody has gone to jail" mean "nobody is in jail" in a context such as the above? Quote:MARK JOHNSON "Well, I think that for him to compare Saudi Arabia to Iraq is a little bit unfair to the Saudis. It's perhaps like comparing a delinquent to a serial murderer. I fully agree that Iraq is not the only barbarous regime in the world or the region, but the difference is that in the case of Iraq we had an evil regime which was on the march. Iraq has gone to war twice now in the last decade, first against Iran and then against Kuwait, and I think most Americans now realize that if we hadn't moved to stop Iraq now, we would inevitably been obligated to stop Iraq later, but under circumstances where Baghdad would have been much more difficult and dangerous to deal with than it is at present."In AmEng, could "have gone to war twice" be used even if the country is no longer at war or not presently planning to go to war?

BarbaraPA · Accepted Answer

AnonymousIn AmEng, does "nobody has gone to jail" mean "nobody is in jail" in a context such as the above?

It means no one has been convicted and sent to jail (as of the date this statement was made). No one is (yet) in jail over these wrong-doings.

AnonymousIn AmEng, could "have gone to war twice" be used even if the country is no longer at war or not presently planning to go to war?

Using the present perfect (has gone) leaves open the possibility that they will go to war again.

The use with "gone" makes it no different than any other use of the present perfect.

I had three candy bars today - it's over and I won't have any more.
I've had three candy bars today - I may eat more

They went to war twice in the decade - you are fairly certin they will not be going to war again (not simply that they are not currently plannign to)
They have gone to war twice in the decade - it's possible they may do so again.

Anonymous · Answer

<They have gone to war twice in the decade - it's possible they may do so again.>

And what would be the difference in meaning in AmEng between that and this?

They have been to war twice in the decade.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Ah.

I think of a nation as something that has "gone" to war, and a solider is someone who has "been" to war.

You're much better as searches than I am.

What does it say for "gone to war" vs. "been to war."

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousIn AmEng, does "nobody has gone to jail" mean "nobody is in jail" in a context such as the above?

Not exactly. ... is in jail is about the current state of affairs. ... has gone to jail is about the experience of being put in jail. It's "Nobody is in this state just now" vs. "Nobody has had this experience up until now".

AnonymousIn AmEng, could "have gone to war twice" be used even if the country is no longer at war or not presently planning to go to war?

Yes. Certainly. It's the same as I have had my skull broken twice in the last 120 years, where my skull is not broken now and I have no plans to have it broken again.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

<Yes. Certainly. It's the same as I have had my skull broken twice in the last 120 years, where my skull is not broken now and I have javascript:void(0) to have it broken again. >

I see. So what's the difference in meaning, etc, between "they've gone to war twice in the last decade" and "they've been to war twice in the last decade", in AmEng?

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymouswhat's the difference in meaning, etc, between "they've gone to war twice in the last decade" and "they've been to war twice in the last decade", in AmEng?

None, really, as I would accept been for gone, but gone seems more idiomatic in AmE (to my ear). It seems to me we use the idiom with been mostly for individuals' visits to specific places (countries, cities, ...), as in Have you ever been to Detroit?
CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim
Anonymouswhat's the difference in meaning, etc, between "they've gone to war twice in the last decade" and "they've been to war twice in the last decade", in AmEng?
None, really, as I would accept been for gone, but gone seems more idiomatic in AmE (to my ear). It seems to me we use the idiom with been mostly for individuals' visits to specific places (countries, cities, ...), as in Have you ever been to Detroit?

CJ

So, let me see if I've got this right.

AmEng can use "has/have got to" a) when someone is not present at the moment of speaking, e.g. "he's gone out" and b) when referring to a past action that may continue, e.g. "he's gone to that concert many times", but, regarding the latter, speakers generally prefer the "has/have been to" form when talking about "specific places. Is that correct?

That's interesting. Have you any ideas about when and why that "has/have gone to" form developed in AmEng? And, how does one define specific places? Why would "that concert", above, not be included under "specific places"? Lastly, why do you think AmEng speakers distinguish between specific and non-specific places and in doing so choose one form over the other?

MrPedantic · Answer

AnonymousHave you any ideas about when and why that "has/have gone to" form developed in AmEng?

Why do you see it as a development in AmE, old chap? As opposed to e.g. an older usage, from which BrE has diverged?

"Has gone to" in AmEng.

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