has been living up till now

Question

I'm not sure about the right tense, is the following correct?That is how this people has been living up till now.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

KaaJeeThat is how these people ~~has~~ have been living (up) till now.

Correct as shown above. "people" is plural. I regard "up" as optional.

CJ

KaaJee · Answer

I used singular because I meant a nation by "people." Meaning that their (or then its?) way of life hasn't changed during the centuries, i.e. these people live today just like their ancestors lived once.

CalifJim · Answer

KaaJeeI used singular because I meant a nation by "people." Meaning that their (or then its?) way of life hasn't changed during the centuries, i.e. these people live today just like their ancestors lived once.

Well, maybe the context will make that clear, but it sounds awful in isolation.

CJ

KaaJee · Answer

Calif Jim: Well, maybe the context will make that clear...

I’m afraid it won’t, because (you’ll be angry) there’s no context for this sentence because this sentence doesn’t even exists, only here. I’ve just tried to write a simpler one than the original one, but it hasn’t become simpler, now I see. Well, the original one is from a Vogul poem, or rather a lay, which is translated to Hungarian, and I would have liked to translate a part of it to English.
It is about happenings of the initial stage of this world (and mankind), and the final lines are:
That is how we, daughters and sons, have been living (up) till now,
amongst other peoples, we, the Vogul.
It can’t be perfect because it was written in old times, which means that Old English would be the ideal language for this, but it would be too problematic. It would be enough to render it in simple today style. Although I think my English sometimes a bit Old English-like. But it’s basically much rather a never existed English.

CalifJim · Answer

KaaJeethere’s no context for this sentence

On the contrary, the context is the Vogul poem, or lay.

For old sagas and epics like this, use "this race of people" for the singular, not "this people". That is more consistent with the style of writing you need for this kind of narrative. "These races of people" or "these peoples" is OK for the plural. Here's a use of the plural from The Saga of the Volsungs:

King Volsung then spoke: All peoples will bear witness that ...
(Translation by Jesse L. Byock)

KaaJeeOld English would be the ideal language for this, but it would be too problematic

None but the most specialized scholars are able to do that, so it's best to stick to modern English.

Note that to us speakers of modern English, Old English is as incomprehensible as Chinese or Hungarian. We don't understand a word of it.

Most modern translations attempt to give the feel of the original poetry of these old works by using structural inversions, but you have to have a mastery of normal, uninverted English before you can become comfortable writing in that kind of style. I would be hesitant to try it myself, and I'm a native speaker!

CJ

KaaJee · Answer

You're right, I've worded very wrongly. It was very wrong to render it in old English because even the Hungarian text is simply written with some old-fashioned poetic phrases, but it's very far from Old Hungarian, of which (similarly to what you've said about Old English) a today Hungarian can hardly understand anything. So I've just thought about a poetic style, for. eg. that of translation of the Poetic Edda, which I've too read in English, and many similar text, and that is why my style sometimes may be old-fashioned (if it's right at all), but not Old English-like, of course. So the point is that "that is how we have been living till now" seems to be good to write.

CalifJim · Answer

KaaJee"that is how we have been living till now" seems to be good to write.

It's fine.

CJ

KaaJee · Answer

Sorry, I would like to ask one more thing, if it came up. You've mentioned the word epic. Maybe that's the word I should use instead of lay, if it's a word for any kind of epic stories. But in my language, only the long stories are called epos (it must be the Greek word which the word epic come from), these are great works which are composed of cantos. But the shorter (say, 5-20 pages long) poetic stories are called differently. These were called lays in most places where I read about them in English, but I've talked with an English person who didn't know the word lay with this meaning. I don't know if this person was ignorant, or these poetic stories are generally called differently in English.

CalifJim · Answer

KaaJeeThese were called lays in most places where I read about them in English

Yes. "lays" is correct. Many people don't know the word because it is so seldom that anyone hears it.

CJ

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