Half as expensive/half as cheap

Question

What is the difference between these?1 It's half as cheap to buy a house here as there.2 It's half as expensive to buy a house here as there.3 It's twice as cheap/twice as expensive to buy a house here as there.Which would you say please?1 How is the pay here? (salary)2 What is the pay like here?3 What is the pay here?Thank you

Ed_shaw · Accepted Answer

With respect to the first three, in conversation, they are all about the same. That having been stated, none of them are very good.

Contemporary usage discourages opening the sentence with either a pronoun reference that is not quite specific, as has been done in all three of the examples, or, with what is called a "dummy
subject," such as, "There was an old lady who lived in a shoe."
Contemporary usage encourages structures in which the noun and the verb drive the thought or action with minimum ambiguity. Taking this into account, your sentence might better become something on the order of, "Houses cost more here than (they do) there." Do you see how the thought has been broken down into the essential elements, subject and predicate.

If you do wish to begin a sentence with "It's" or "It is," you probably ought to have some reference in mind. In "It's my turn," the "it is," answers the real question, "Whose turn is it?" Also acceptible are constructions such as, "It's the men who are to blame for what's wrong," where we have a clear notion of who the pronoun references.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

ed_shawWith respect to the first three, in conversation, they are all about the same. That having been stated, none of them are very good.

Contemporary usage discourages opening the sentence with either a pronoun reference that is not quite specific, as has been done in all three of the examples, or, with what is called a "dummy

subject," such as, "There was an old lady who lived in a shoe."

Contemporary usage encourages structures in which the noun and the verb drive the thought or action with minimum ambiguity. Taking this into account, your sentence might better become something on the order of, "Houses cost more here than (they do) there." Do you see how the thought has been broken down into the essential elements, subject and predicate.

If you do wish to begin a sentence with "It's" or "It is," you probably ought to have some reference in mind. In "It's my turn," the "it is," answers the real question, "Whose turn is it?" Also acceptible are constructions such as, "It's the men who are to blame for what's wrong," where we have a clear notion of who the pronoun references.

Very well explained!

The only comment I would like to add is, many learners often have this question in mind: "Can I say XYZ..."? Many questions of this variety which they believe grammatically correct in deed are, but they are often awkward sounding and used unnaturally in the given context. I believe, the "can I say.." approach can produce the adverse effect as the learners weigh more on whether they can say the sentence in a certain pattern rather than the proper usage and the applied context. I am echoing your points exactly.

Ed_shaw · Answer

Your comment reflects precisely the thought process as a response occurred to me, dimsumexpress. Thank you for adding it.

Fir the sake of background information, I am re-entering this type of volunteer work, participation in an ESL forum, following a six or eight year hiatus, simply because I missed the challenge and satisfaction of helping others and associating with people like yourself. Prior to that break, I had been quite active, having responded to hundreds of posts over about a six year period, in another splendid on line forum. Now, you know.
I found myself following a familiar pattern is responding to the "cheaper here than there."
The beauty of online tutoring is that the tutor is allowed time. I looked at and thought about and looked at and thought about the examples. Finally, it occured to me, there is nothing really wrong with the poster's constructions, they are just awkward. That's when my eye went directly to that first word, "it's," and, eureka, I found it.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Thanks for your response. I hang out at EF because I love English which is not my native tongue by the way. I had my share of rough time with it before I accidentally discovered an affective way to learn and improve my English. Over the years, I have developed an insight from the ESL point of view which I have tried to share it with the learners. Because of my past bumpy learning experience and problems encountered, I'd like to help them avoid it. That's really the whole purpose of my being here. I firmly believe, finding the method which works for us is half the battle in learning. Some may eventually get there but probably by a long route and with painful struggle. My approach is, open our eyes to observe, ears to listen and use our mouth to practice speech. If learners can apply this method and are really serious about learning, I can assure them noticeable progress.

Khoff · Answer

alc241 It's half as cheap to buy a house here as there.
2 It's half as expensive to buy a house here as there.
3 It's twice as cheap/twice as expensive to buy a house here as there.

I think that the problem with all of these is that "half as cheap" and "half as expensive" are meaningless. Suppose one house costs $100,000 and another costs $200,000. Is one "half as cheap" as the other, or "half as expensive"? For either of these to be meaningful, you would have to be able to say that the house "is "$100,000 cheap," and we can't say that. (If one thing is one meter tall and another thing is two meteres tall, then the first is half as tall as the second.) You would have to say something like "A house here costs half as much as a house there."

CalifJim · Answer

alc24Which would you say please?

1 How is the pay here? (salary)
2 What is the pay like here?
3 ~~What is the pay here?~~

I prefer 2, especially if you change it to What's, but 1 is also fine.

CJ

Ed_shaw · Answer

I'm glad you addressed those issues, khoff. Someone had to.
I chose to address what I perceived as the structural flaw. The plain fact is that one would never hear an educated or knowledgeable speaker refer to "cheap" or "expensive" real estate, except in
unusual or specific circumstances, such as:
"Condos in Hong Kong are very expensive," or
"California real estate is cheap, right now," meaning, prices are depressed and it is a bargain.

No, I didn't want to go into the content, but you have, and you have provided the answer; namely, "A house here costs...."

Alc24 · Answer

On second thought, obviously, it doesn't make sense to say the 3 things, I'm stupid, thank you for clarifying,

could you say these 3? Do these all mean the same thing? and are they ok?
1 A house here as half as much as a house there.
2 A house here is twice less than a house there.
2 A house here is half what it is there.

It doesn't work with cheap and expensive when using half
but with TWICE??

1 It's twice as expensive here as there.
2 It's twice as cheap here as there.

Are these OK ? I've heard these before I think.

Thank you Khoff

Khoff · Answer

alc24It doesn't work with cheap and expensive when using half
but with TWICE??

1 It's twice as expensive here as there.
2 It's twice as cheap here as there.

No, "twice as cheap" is no better than "half as cheap." It's because you have no way to measure how cheap or expensive something is -- those are subjective terms. The only thing you can measure is what it costs. (Yes, you could ask "how cheap/expensive is it?" and get a dollar amount as an answer, but in that case the question really being answered is the assumed question "what does it cost?" The actual answer to "how cheap" would have to be something like "very cheap." "Half/twice as cheap/expensive" just doesn't make sense.)

alc24could you say these 3? Do these all mean the same thing? and are they ok?
1 A house here as half as much as a house there.
2 A house here is twice less than a house there.
2 A house here is half what it is there.

Sentence #1 and the second sentence #2 (you have an interesting system of numbering things!) would be much better with "costs" instead of "is" -- "A house here costs half as much as a house there." Your versions might well be said casually, but it's clearer with "costs".

"Twice less" just makes my head hurt!! I can't think of a possible context in which "twice less" would make sense.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

1 A house here as half as much as a house there.

2 A house here is twice less than a house there.

2 A house here is half what it is there.

For the "intriquing" questions, may I suggest "half the price" or "50% less". Also, you may say anything as long as people can understand what you are saying and it's grammatical. A complete sentence must have a verb in it.

Half as expensive/half as cheap

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