Had to / must = reported speech

Question

1. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we had to leave. (correct)
2. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we must leave. (wrong because of "now" we should backshift "must" to "had to")

3. "Must you leave now?" He asks us. He asks us if we have to leave. (correct)
4. "Must you leave now?" He asks us. He asks us if we must leave. (correct because of "asks" is the present tense, so both "must" or "have to" work)

Hello,
Am I right about 2, 3 and 4?
I have asked this question in http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/had-to-must-reported-speech.3201725/ too.
I want to make sure that's why I'm asking this here too.

Thank you.

GPY · Accepted Answer

Yes, I agree with your assessments. (3) and (4) in the present tense would rarely arise though.

Sb70012 · Answer

Thank you.

Most of the grammar books say that we should backshift the times in direct and indirect speech.

i.e.

now => then
tonight => last night
today => yesterday
tomorrow => today
etc.

In my sentence isn't it wrong if I have not changed "now" to "then" at the end of the sentence? Isn't it a mistake?

I mean:

A. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we had to leave.
B. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we had to leave then.

Don't you regard sentence A wrong just because I haven't added the word "then" at the end?

BarbaraPA · Answer

sb70012.e. now => then tonight => last night today => yesterday tomorrow => today etc.

Your "i.e." should be "e.g."

The back shifting isn't correct unless you are reporting the speech precisely the next day.
now - at that time/then
tonight - that night
today - that day
tomorrow - the next day/the following day
yesterday - the day before/the prior day
last night - the night before/the prior night
this week - that week

Sb70012 · Answer

But in grammar books it's not clear whether we are reporting such sentences precisely the next day. For example in my sentence how should I make sure that I am reporting precisely the next day?
Do you mean I should or shouldn't use "then" at the end of my sentence?

I would be grateful if you clarify your meaning by an example.

Thank you.

Fivejedjon · Answer

When you are telling somebody what somebody else said, you know the timing and, if appropriate, can use the forms you listed.

If you are writing about what somebody said, use the forms Barbara suggested.

Sb70012 · Answer

fivejedjonWhen you are telling somebody what somebody else said, you know the timing and, if appropriate, can use the forms you listed.If you are writing about what somebody said, use the forms Barbara suggested.

So you mean:

1. In writing (like text book exercises) I don't need to use the time ("now" and "then" at the end of the sentence) of the direct speech in indirect speech.

but

2. In speaking (when telling someone) I should use the time ("now" and "then" at the end of the sentence) of the direct speech in indirect speech.

A. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we had to leave.
B. "Must you leave now?" He asked us. He asked us if we had to leave then.

A should be used in writings and B should be used at speakings.

Have I understood you right?

Thank you.

BarbaraPA · Answer

No.
Your list of words suggests that if the person says "tomorrow" you should change it to "today." That's only correct if you are speaking/writing about it the next day.

It doesn't matter if it's in speaking or writing. It depends on when it was said, what time frame it referred to in the future, and whether that time has passed yet.

If, on Monday, someone says "I have a dentist appointment tomorrow" and you are talking about this on Friday, you would not say "He said he had a dentist appointment today." You would say "He said he had a dentist appointment the next day." ONLY if you speak about this on Tuesday (the day after it was said) would you say "today" instead of "the next day."

If someone says on June 2 "I am going to London later this month" and you are talking about it in July, you would say "She said she was going to London later that month." If it is still July, you could say "this month."

You could add "then" or "at that time" to your original reported speech if you want to be precise, but it was clear enough without it.

Sb70012 · Answer

BarbaraPAIt doesn't matter if it's in speaking or writing. It depends on when it was said, what time frame it referred to in the future, and whether that time has passed yet.

Thanks a lot now I understand.

But when a teacher wants to give us an exam and he gives us the exam sheets in order to test our knowledge about such questions, if I encounter to such questions in the exam, it's not clear whether the time has passes yet or not.

What should I do then? To backshift the time or omit it? You know in the exam we don't know whether that time has passed yet or not.

What should we do then?

Thank you.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Assume the time has passed.

Had to / must = reported speech

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