"had this belief that" Vs. "have believed that"

Question

Hi,1. The societies had this belief that they should ...2. The societies have believed that they should ...do they mean the same?when i am using number one term, should i say something about time? I mean, is it necessary to say "The societies had this belief, a century ago that, they should ..."is it true that if i use the term number two i don't have to place "a century ago" in the sentence?

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

1. The societies had this belief that they should ... At some point in the past, and the reader needs to know or be told when.

2. The societies have believed that they should ... At some unspecified point in the past up,until now,. Exactly when is not important.

do they mean the same? No.

when i am using number one term, should i say something about time? Yes I mean, is it necessary to say "The societies had this belief, a century ago that, they should ..."

is it true that if i use the term number two i don't have to place "a century ago" in the sentence? Yes

Clive

Mister Micawber · Answer

1. The societies had this belief that they should ...
2. The societies have believed that they should ...

Do they mean the same?-- No. The second suggests that the belief still continues up to now; the first indicates that they no longer believe.

When i am using number one term, should i say something about time? I mean, is it necessary to say "The societies had this belief, a century ago that, they should ..."-- No, it is unnecessary.

Is it true that if i use the term number two i don't have to place "a century ago" in the sentence?-- It is true that you cannot include a definite past time reference; if you do, you must use past tense ('societies had the belief' or 'societies believed').

Dastparvardeh · Answer

Hi,
Thanks for your answers

Mister MicawberWhen i am using number one term, should i say something about time? I mean, is it necessary to say "The societies had this belief, a century ago that, they should ..."-- No, it is unnecessary.

well, I had a conversation with one of my friends few days ago and he saidit IS NECESSARY to include a time reference when using this kind of sentence, as Clive also says that. I realized that this two sentences do not mean the same. but is it really necessary to include a time in sentence number one? Personally I think it is not, well it is just a guess

, I want to know why you are not agree with Clive?
Thanks again

Mister Micawber · Answer

I am sure that you are misreading Clive's explanation.  As for your friend...well, you are either misunderstanding her too, or she is mistaken.  You do not need a textual time reference unless you wish to provide that information.  Past tense refers to a past time, but it needn't be mentioned for the sentence to be correct.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

What I said was this.

1. The societies had this belief that they should ... At some point in the past, and the reader needs to know or be told when.

2. The societies have believed that they should ... At some unspecified point in the past up,until now,. Exactly when is not important.

when i am using number one term, should i say something about time? Yes I didn't mean that you always had to tell me in the same sentence. Maybe you don't need to tell me at all, if I already know. I mean, is it necessary to say "The societies had this belief, a century ago that, they should ..."

I have put in pink, and underlined, the deepest part of my explanation, and put in bold the part you need to think about.

Consider these simplified examples.

A. You walk into a room and say to me, 'Mary has broken her leg'. My first question might be 'Is she OK?'

B. You walk into a room and say to me, 'Mary broke her leg'. My first question might be 'When?'

C. You walk into a room and say to me, 'Mary was driving to school this morning. She broke her leg.' My first question iwill not be 'When', because you told me earlier in the context.

Clive

"had this belief that" Vs. "have believed that"

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