Had hoped.. would V vs. hoped ...would have p.p.

Hello again

We had hoped that he would stay longer

I don't know why past perfect is used here. Is it an independent sentence? Or is it a statement embedded in any clause? If it stands by itself, I take this 'would' is a modal expressing the volition of the subject. One cannot know whether he actually stay longer or not.

We hoped that he would hav

Hi Komountain,

Both sentences are incorrect. There are 2 actions (or lack of action) in the past : You hoping and him staying. Since "you hoping" happened first, it must be put in Past Perfect tense. And since "him staying" were just a wishful thinking and didn't really happened, it must be in WOULD HAVE PP.

We had hoped that he would have stayed longer.

Hmm. I have a slightly different view (which may be wrong):

1. We had hoped that he would stay longer.

That sounds fine to me. It means:

2. We had hoped that he would stay longer (but he didn't).

So 'hope' is in the past perfect because the hoping preceded the visit.

3. We hoped that he would have stayed longer.

I would change this to

I would not rephrase it like that, no.

The subordinate clause of the second sentence "he would have stayed longer" suggests something counterfactual or something dependent upon an unstated condition, perhaps, "if we had insisted", thus:

We hoped that he would have stayed longer (if we had insisted).

This implied counterfactual, to my ear, seems to conflict with the i

Thank you all.

Please allow me to add a little twist to my original question.

Would you rephrase

He expected to pass the test, but he didn't.

as
1.

He had expected to pass the test.

or as
2.

He expected to have passed the test.

?

hope, expect, intend, wish, want...
These verbs have one thing in common, paco. They all involve future events; in other words, they are the verbs used to describe future events. So, I've called them 'future verbs' for the sake of convenience.

If we want to describe a past event that we hoped for but did not happen, we likely adopt or . As you see here, had p.p. is a

Hello KoMt

Thank you for pointing my mistake. Yes I was definitely wrong. The mistake came actually from the fact I knew nothing about the use of the past perfect for unsatisfied desires. I appreciate that you gave me a chance to know it. The following is my thought on the reason why the past perfect is used to express unsatisfied desires;
I hope he will pass the exam. will :

the past perfect tense is used for unsatisfied desires

It seems, suddenly, a rather desolate tense.

---

1. He had expected to pass the test.

This we say of him, as he stares disconsolately at the email from his tutor; or, as he stares jubilantly at a different email:

1a. He had expected to pass the test – and he did!

2. He expected

Perhaps 'to have passed the test' is difficult because of the double meaning of 'passed the test'; it can mean either

1. 'to have passed the test because the test had already been marked', or
2. 'to have received the results of the test'.

With #1, you may have already passed the test, but be unaware of the fact. So with a little desperate tweaking:

3. 'He was

On the original question, I'd agree with CJ's comments about counterfactuality in the second version. It's almost an ellipsis:

1. We hoped that (he would stay longer; and) he would have stayed longer (if XYZ hadn't happened).

MrP