Had better

Question

Is this chain exercise using "had better" correct, please?   I guess they'd better wait for an answer within some minutes   I guess they'd better sleep within some minutes.   I guess they'd better sleep right now.   I guess they'd better tell the truth right now.   I guess they'd better tell the truth soon.   I guess they'd better solve the problem soon.   I guess they'd better solve the problem as soon as possible.   I guess they'd better solve the problem now.   Thanks for the attention,   Anon.

Fandorin · Accepted Answer

Anonymous Is this chain exercise using "had better" correct, please?

I guess they'd better wait for an answer within some minutes
I guess they'd better sleep within some minutes.
I guess they'd better sleep right now.
I guess they'd better tell the truth right now.
I guess they'd better tell the truth soon.
I guess they'd better solve the problem soon.
I guess they'd better solve the problem as soon as possible.
I guess they'd better solve the problem now.

Thanks for the attention,
Anon.

Fine.

Yankee · Answer

To me, the first three sentences are not natural. I'd suggest these changes:

- I guess they'd better wait a few minutes for an answer ~~within some minutes~~.
- I guess they'd better go to sleep within ~~some~~ a few / the next few minutes.
- I guess they'd better go to sleep right now.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi Yankee,

Thanks for the corrections. But as it is a chain drill exercise in which I have to repeat the words so can I say those first three sentences as follows?

I guess they'd better wait for an answer within a few minutes.
I guess they'd better go to sleep within a few minutes.
I guess they'd better go to sleep right now.
.
.
.

Thanks again,
Anon.

Yankee · Answer

Hi Anon

To me the first sentence is simply wrong. Period.

What is the goal of this "chain drill exercise"? Is it supposed to teach students how to use English incorrectly? Using sentence 1 would in essence drill a usage error into a learner's head. It is counter-productive to drill "had better" if doing so reinforces other errors.

I'd say sentence 2 is more likely to be expressed as "within the next few minutes".

Anonymous · Answer

Hi Yankee,

First of all let me tell you that I'm just a student, not a teacher. Considering it, commit mistakes is something considered acceptable, mainly because I'm not native.
So, I may say there's nothing wrong with the exercise,the problem is that the sentences I made were wrong. My intention when I sent you those first three sentences was just to know if there was another alternative because in the required exercise parts of a sentence should be repeated making a chain. But as now I know it's not possible because it's completely wrong, so this is what I'll use following your answers:

I guess they'd better wait a few minutes for an answer;
I guess they'd better go to sleep a few minutes;
I guess they'd better go to sleep right now.

Okay? I'm very sorry to let you so angry.

Yankee · Answer

Hi Anon

AnonymousOkay? I'm very sorry to get you so angry.

I wasn't angry. I was simply being very definite.

I'm familiar with this sort of chain drill. However, I'd say it can actually become much harder to create natural sentences if too many of the elements of the sentences have to remain exactly the same. You often end up with quite a few sentences that sound forced or awkward, or that are just plain wrong -- which is apparently what has now happened to your latest batch of sentences. What is the intended meaning of sentence 2? Are they supposed to start sleeping very soon (sometime within the next 5 minutes)? Or are they supposed to go to sleep immediately, sleep for about 5 minutes, and then wake up again?

AnonymousI guess they'd better wait (for) a few minutes for an answer;
I guess they'd better go to sleep in ?? a few minutes;
I guess they'd better go to sleep right now.

In the first sentence, the preposition "for" is optional.

In sentence 2, the preposition "in" is necessary if you want to convey the idea of "soon". If for some strange reason you want to say that it is very important that they spend a few minutes sleeping, then it would be better to use the preposition "for" rather than simply omitting it.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi Yankee

Good to know that I didn't get

you angry. By the way when can we use let? Concerning sentence nº 2 sorry, but I just wrote exactly what you had written in blue. In fact I was in doubt if I should consider within or not before your suggestion a few/the next few. So, I decided to omit it.

- I guess they'd better go to sleep within some a few / the next few minutes.

Yankee · Answer

AnonymousBy the way when can we use let?

If that was actually a serious question, then I would ask you to please be more specific. The word "let" has quite a few definitions and usages, and I feel sure you already know some of them. Perhaps you will find what you're looking for here, for example: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?dict=B&searchword=let

Yankee- I guess they'd better go to sleep within ~~some~~ a few / the next few minutes.

Anonymous- I guess they'd better go to sleep within some a few / the next few minutes.

In that particular sentence, I suggested adding "go to", and then I suggested replacing the word "some" with either "a few" or "the next few". That's why I crossed out the word "some" in my post. (I'm not quite sure why "some" was not crossed out in your post.) I did not cross out or eliminate the word "within" in that sentence.

AnonymousI guess they'd better wait (for) a few minutes for an answer.

Do you understand why I changed the word order and also removed the word "within" from the sentence with the verb "wait"?

Anonymous · Answer

Hello Yankee

I wasn't precise concerning to the word let because I'd like to know the general uses for that. So thanks for the hint.
In: "I guess they'd better go to sleep within some a few / the next few minutes." . Sorry but neither I understood what happened that the word some didn't appear crossed out in my post as you did. If you didn't called my attention, I wouldn't notice such detail. Thanks!
Now I know that the possibilities are:

- I guess they'd better go to sleep within a few (or within the next few) minutes;
and
- I guess they'd better go to sleep in a few minutes.

In relation to : "I guess they'd better wait (for) a few minutes for an answer" being used instead of : "I guess they'd better wait for an answer within some minutes", sincerely I didn't understand the grammar reason why we have to change "some minutes" for "a few minutes" as well as its position in the sentence,and cross out "within". I only know that the way you wrote for sure sounds much better!
I'd be very grateful to hear your explanation about it because sincerely I'm not a kind of person that be satisfied only with: ..."oh, because it is the way it must be used" or ..."because it's not natural" and so on. I think that if I really want to learn (speak and write fluently in English) I must understand what I'm studying. Of course that exceptions to the rule should be considered such as: "why the simple past tense of the verb to buy is bought ?", "why the verb for he, she, it, in the simple present takes an "s" in the ending?" For these things I would say: "because it was determined to be at this way" (well, this is what I suppose. Maybe I am wrong...)

Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks again!

Anon.

Yankee · Answer

Hi Anon

Think about what happens when you wait. By definition, the verb "wait" suggests duration. There is a beginning point and an ending point, and waiting also includes all of the time in between the starting and ending points. You can wait for something to happen, and when it happens, the waiting ends. Or you wait from a specific time until another specific time. If you are currently in the process of waiting for something, you can say that you have been waiting since a particular point in time in order to tell someone how long your wait has been so far.

The word "within" suggests that something is inside of something else. If I tell you that "he will arrive within an hour", that means that his arrival will happen at a point in time that is later than now, and sooner than an hour from now. His arrival is not something that has a duration -- it will happen at an unspecified point in time within (inside) the stated time frame.

This was your original sentence:
- I guess they'd better wait for an answer within some minutes.

What does that sentence mean? It seems to be trying to say that they should "soon begin to wait for an answer". In other words, there will be a single, unspecified point in time in the very near future (within the next few minutes) at which they should begin waiting for an answer. But they do not need to begin waiting until that unspecified point in time arrives. However, since the point in time is unspecified, how will they know when exactly when to begin waiting? In addition, there is no mention at all of how long they should or might have to wait for an answer. They might have to wait for an answer for days or weeks.

I decided that was probably not what you were trying to say. I assumed that you meant that "an answer would be provided very soon, and that they should wait for the answer to come. Thus, I got rid of the word "within". Saying "wait a few minutes" means the same thing as "wait for a few minutes", and that expresses an approximation of how long the wait will be. The end of the wait would logically be at the point in the that the answer arrives.

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