Grammar question no. 22 - before and by the time (again yet different)

Question

Dear All,Here's a line from a TV series called Game of Thrones (season 3, episode 6)We depart for the Twins (it's a name of a place) in the morning. We need an answer before we leave.Would it be OK to say We need an answer by the time we leave and would the meaning change in any way?Thanks

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

Would it be OK to say We need an answer by the time we leave Yes.
Would the meaning change in any way? Not really.

Perfect Stranger · Answer

AlpheccaStarsWould the meaning change in any way? Not really.

Thanks... Haha, does not really mean there's absolutely no difference

?

Perfect Stranger · Answer

Hmm... in one of my previous threads MM was kind enough to tell me that there's a difference between these two sentences:

1. Before I even finished introducing myself, the class was already over.
2. By the time I even finished introducing myself, the class was already over.

But the sentences we are discussing in this thread are different because they refer to the future... Does it mean that by the time = before when the reference is the future? Clearly, when the reference is the past, they are different...

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Perfect Stranger AlpheccaStarsWould the meaning change in any way? Not really.Thanks... Haha, does not really mean there's absolutely no difference ?

It depends on the tone of voice, but "by the time we leave" seems to me more precise and a bit more emphatic.

Perfect Stranger · Answer

Ouch, looks like I posted another question just before you posted your answer to my previous question. Can you have a look at the one above?

I'm not sure why by the time used in the past-related sentences changes the meaning of a sentence entirely (as opposed to before) and yet when the reference is for the future, the change doesn't seem to be visible.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Perfect StrangerHmm... in one of my previous threads MM was kind enough to tell me that there's a difference between these two sentences:1. Before I even finished introducing myself, the class was already over.2. By the time I even finished introducing myself, the class was already over.But the sentences we are discussing in this thread are different because they refer to the future... Does it mean that by the time = before when the reference is the future? Clearly, when the reference is the past, they are different...

The difference is not in the present, past, or future.
The word "even" in these sentences does not make sense. Otherwise, they read the same to me. I would interpret them both as:
At the time when you finished introducing yourself, the classroom was empty (because the class time was over and everyone had left.)

Clive · Answer

No real difference is intended.

If you want to split hairs, you could argue this way.

Assume we will depart at 8 am.

We need an answer before we leave. An answer at 8 am will be too late.

We need an answer by the time we leave An answer at 8 am will be OK.

Clive

PS I stated to answer this post, stopped for a while, and then completed my answer.

Perfect Stranger · Answer

Thanks guys... well, I guess your answers are similar to what MM said in one of my older threads... Let me quote:

In #1 you did not finish the introduction; in #2 you did. 'Even' is odd or wrong in #2.

Grammar question no. 22 - before and by the time (again yet different)

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