Grammar Question

Question

Which is the correct version of this command form sentence:

a) Be forgiving each other.

b) Be forgiving to each other.

c) Be forgiving of each other.

Also, is this the best group to post such a question? If not, which one is?

Thanks, Alexa

Usenet · Accepted Answer

I think A) be forgiving each other is correct. 'Forgive' is a transitive verb so it doesn't need any preposition.

Havw a good day! Mike
[nq:1]Which is the correct version of this command form sentence: a) Be forgiving each other. b) Be forgiving to each other. c) Be forgiving of each other. Also, is this the best group to post such a question? If not, which oneis? Thanks, Alexa[/nq]

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable "??" (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:2]Which is the correct version of this command form sentence: ... group to post such a question? If not, which one[/nq]
[nq:1]is? I think A) be forgiving each other is correct. 'Forgive' is a transitive verb so it doesn't need any preposition. Havw a good day![/nq]
No, A is the only wrong answer here. "forgiving" in this sentence is an adjective, not a verb, so transitivity has nothing to do with whether it does or does not take a preposition. "Be" is the main verb here.

Be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Be wary of each other Be there for each other. ("there" is an adverb, not an adjective) Be happy with each other.

The point to this little list is that it demonstrates that the preposition that heads the prepositional phrase that follows the adjective or adverb is governed by the adjective or adverb. It is entirely idiomatic and not necessarily logical.

I don't know about other native English speakers, but I find a sutble difference between B and C, although, beyond the tone and style, I cannot say what it is. I don't know which one I would use if I wanted to say such a thing to anyone. I think they are both "correct" and grammatical, but I'd bet that the more frequently used one depends on which dialect of English one speaks.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Which is the correct version of this command form sentence: a) Be forgiving each other. b) Be forgiving to each ... to be even more ostentatious, "Be forgiving of each other." Usually, I'd just say, "Shut up and forgive each other!"[/nq]

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable Bill Bonde (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:2]Which is the correct version of this command form sentence: ... forgiving to each other. c) Be forgiving of each other.[/nq]
[nq:1]I can't see using any of those forms in speech unless I was trying to sound as if I were ... to be even more ostentatious, "Be forgiving of each other." Usually, I'd just say, "Shut up and forgive each other!"[/nq]
You have never heard a sermon? This kind of language is priest/rabbi/imam-talk. There is a world outside of Usenet.

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable Bill Bonde (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:2]The inimitable Bill Bonde (Email Removed) stated one day You ... language is priest/rabbi/imam-talk. There is a world outside of Usenet.[/nq]
[nq:1]Didn't you see how I said that I wouldn't use it when talking in colloquial registers?[/nq]
No. I don't see those two words in your previous post.
[nq:1]That it sounds affected? That it sounds like someone talking above the people he is talking to?[/nq]
I saw those two ideas, yes. But I disagree that it's always affected, only in certain circumstances --- even though those circumstances are undoubtedly most everyday situations for most people.
[nq:1]So, I agree that a priest/rabbi/imam or the like could use it. They are supposed to talk like that.[/nq]
Right, and when they do, they do not sound affected, just fatherly/advisorly, in general.
[nq:1]A more interesting question is why does it sound condescending? Is it due to conflation with passive forms?[/nq]
Maybe because it is easier to say than to do and because those who give fatherly advice often forget what it was like to be in the position of needing such advice. I don't think that "Shut up and forgive each other!" is in a register that would make me want to take such advice seriously. It expresses your impatience, not your camaraderie. On the other hand, "Be forgiving {of/to} each other" is rather pompous even if delivered by those who are supposed to say such things. It is an empty formula. I need reasons, not a verbal nostrum for strong emotions.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The inimitable Bill Bonde (Email Removed) stated one day[/nq]
[nq:2] I can't see using any of those forms in ... Usually, I'd just say, "Shut up and forgive each other!"[/nq]
[nq:1]You have never heard a sermon? This kind of language is priest/rabbi/imam-talk. There is a world outside of Usenet. Didn't ... like that. A more interesting question is why does it sound condescending? Is it due to conflation with passive forms?[/nq]
-- One a 'em gud ol' boyz o'r 'ere gots hisse'f in ta da dreenk an' done runned himz pickup treek inta 'at 'ere win'meal finy o'r 'ere. I done saw it an' so I says ta 'is aver feelow 'at were bisides me, I says ta'im: "That does appear at first glance, Charles, to be the sort of juxtapositional reference to the classic Spanish literary work of Cervantes which I could find highly useful in a future usenet post." So me an' 'at guy 'at were bisides me 'at I done talked av afore, up 'ere, does ya-all sees 'ere I is pointin' me finga?, anyways, later but good an' fast, wez gots ta the seen a da axcident an' I says ta 'at aver feelow 'at I keeps talkin' ta on akounts ta 'im bein' right nekst ta me, I says, "The situation here at the accident does appear on first assessment to, indeed, be very grave. Clearly he has driven his late model, light blue, Ford F-150 pickup into this modern, clean, bird-safe wind generation facility full tilt. Before performing first aid and saving the poor man's life, I shall retrieve my Motorola mobile phone from my automobile in order to place an urgent call for the high quality emergency rescue personnel that our sky high local tax system helps to perpetuate." Soz, 'at were 'at, an' I done gots 'is 'ere medal frum da prazident av 'is 'ere Yoonited Stetz av 'Merikesch so az I cun provz 'at it all done happen axect 'ike I says 'at it done. -' At Da Win'mealz

Usenet · Answer

Actually, this question came up in an attempt to analyse the grammatical structure of the following sentence from the New Testament: "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ *** forgave you." - Ephesians 4 : 32. The original question was whether the phrase "forgiving each other" is a participle phrase or a gerund phrase. In an attempt to answer this question, I stripped out as many of the other words from the sentence as possible, resulting in "Be forgiving each other." But this clearly does not sound right. Any thoughts? Alexa

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable (Email Removed) (Alexa) stated one day
[nq:1]Actually, this question came up in an attempt to analyse the grammatical structure of the following sentence from the New ... from the sentence as possible, resulting in "Be forgiving each other." But this clearly does not sound right. Any thoughts?[/nq]
This makes a difference. This sentence lacks parallel structure and should be revised solely on those grounds. It is a poor revision of the King James rendition: "(32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as *** for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

The sentence is elliptical. Whether it's a gerund or a present participle is irrelevant to the meaning of the sentence, and a gerund is a present participle used as a noun. In this case, I would say it is a gerund because the phrase "forgiving each other" is a noun phrase, unless it occurs in sentences like "We are forgiving each other" or "They are forgiving each other", in which case it is a present participle and part of the main verb "to forgive" used in present progressive tense and aspect. What it reads like to me is a short list or meanings for "be kind" --- ie "be tenderharted" and "forgive each other". "forgiving one another" is a parenthesis (a parenthetical insertion into the sentence) that is not connected to the grammar of "Be kind". It is an example of what it means to be kind to each other. It seems to me that the original writer did not want to include another imperative but wanted the admonition to be softer. I've heard this kind of language in marriage ceremonies and sermons, where the speaker was more concerned with the sound of each phrase than with the grammar of each sentence.

Were I a serious pedant, I would say that the sentence is ungrammatical and wrong, but because the KJV has to be looked at for its literary quality as well as what it says to believers, I have to say that the sentence is poetry and does not bear normal grammatical analysis. There is no failure of communication here. The meaning of the sentence comes through loud and clear. I think I would have used m-dashes instead of commas, though, to indicate a longer pause before and after the phrase "forviging each other".

The revised version you quote from, however, is a different story. The translator was apparently a literary clod, IMHO, and failed to maintain consistency of style in his translation.

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable (Email Removed) (Alexa) stated one day
[nq:1]Actually, this question came up in an attempt to analyse the grammatical structure of the following sentence from the New ... from the sentence as possible, resulting in "Be forgiving each other." But this clearly does not sound right. Any thoughts?[/nq]
I just checked Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech, and Svartvik's A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (Longman, 1985, 1991 revised), and I would have to say that my first impression that it was a noun phrase is wrong. It is a parenthetical participial construction and is subject to standard grammatical analysis. It is also grammatical but not stylistically parallel. Well, sometimes stylistic disjuncts are more effective than parallel constructions.

It still has nothing to do with the grammar of "Be kind", though.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The inimitable (Email Removed) (Alexa) stated one day[/nq]
[nq:2]Actually, this question came up in an attempt to analyse ... other." But this clearly does not sound right. Any thoughts?[/nq]
[nq:1]This makes a difference. This sentence lacks parallel structure and should be revised solely on those grounds. It is a ... different story. The translator was apparently a literary clod, IMHO, and failed to maintain consistency of style in his translation.[/nq]
I appreciate your kind and thoughtful reply. But I truly believe that the sentence has correct grammar, because the translators for the NIV Bible have excellent credentials, as you can see from this passage quoted from biblegateway.com concerning the NIV translation:

"The New International Version (NIV) is a translation made by more than one hundred scholars working from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. It was conceived in 1965 when, after several years of study by committees from the Christian Reformed Church and the National Association of Evangelicals, a trans-denominational and international group of scholars met at Palos Heights, Illinois, and agreed on the need for a new translation in contemporary English. Their conclusion was endorsed by a large number of church leaders who met in Chicago in 1966. Responsibility for the version was delegated to a self-governing body of fifteen Biblical scholars, the Committee on Bible Translation, and in 1967, the New York Bible Society (now International Bible Society) generously undertook the financial sponsorship of the project. The translation of each book was assigned to a team of scholars, and the work was thoroughly reviewed and revised at various stages by three separate committees.The Committee submitted the developing version to stylistic consultants who made invaluable suggestions. Samples of the translation were tested for clarity and ease ofreading by various groups of people. In short, perhaps no other translation has been made by a more thorough process of review and revision. The Committee held to certain goals for the NIV: that it be an Accurate, Beautiful, Clear, and Dignified translation suitable for public and private reading, teaching, preaching, memorizing, and liturgical use. The translators were united in their commitment to the authority and infallibility of the Bible as ***'s Word in written form. They agreed that faithful communication of the meaning of the original writers demands frequent modifications in sentence structure (resulting in a "thought-for-thought" translation) and constant regard for the contextual meanings of words."

So, given the assumption that the sentence has correct grammar, the question remains: what is the verb acting on the phrase "forgiving each other", and is this a noun phrase or an adjective phrase? I realize the answer to this question does not have anything to do with the meaning of the sentence, but I was simply having an academic discussion concerning the underlying grammatical structure.

Thanks, Alexa

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