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Rinoceronte Posted 16 years ago
Linguistics Studies
Grammar Pulp
Now let's have a closer look at what is considered "available grammar literature". For example, an English coursebook "Language Leader", Intermediate Level. The book itself is not bad, even quite good, but its grammar components, as always, are not worth much.
The second chapter has an exercise in which you are supposed to choose between Present Perfect and Past Simple. One of the tasks reads as follows:
I have known/knew him for last 10 years.
This is the brightest evidence of pulpness, because:
A) the correct option, which is Present Perfect Continuous, is not included.
B) of two included options the book considers correct the wrong one (Present Perfect).
The fact that "to know" is considered by some a "stative" verb, does not mean anything for a sound mind (4500 instances of stative verbs in continuous tenses in COHA, if you forgot). If you are still not ready to use the proper Present Perfect Continuous here, give me the reasons why you go for Present Perfect in this sentence. My students said "OK, if we HAVE to choose between those two stupid options, it should be Past Simple, because it's Past Simple, that doesn't tell the aspects, and may be either". So, what are your reasons?
And before you start throwing heavy stuff at me, go google those two options. The phrases "I knew him for many years" and "I have known him for many years" produce virtually equal number of results.
The second chapter has an exercise in which you are supposed to choose between Present Perfect and Past Simple. One of the tasks reads as follows:
I have known/knew him for last 10 years.
This is the brightest evidence of pulpness, because:
A) the correct option, which is Present Perfect Continuous, is not included.
B) of two included options the book considers correct the wrong one (Present Perfect).
The fact that "to know" is considered by some a "stative" verb, does not mean anything for a sound mind (4500 instances of stative verbs in continuous tenses in COHA, if you forgot). If you are still not ready to use the proper Present Perfect Continuous here, give me the reasons why you go for Present Perfect in this sentence. My students said "OK, if we HAVE to choose between those two stupid options, it should be Past Simple, because it's Past Simple, that doesn't tell the aspects, and may be either". So, what are your reasons?
And before you start throwing heavy stuff at me, go google those two options. The phrases "I knew him for many years" and "I have known him for many years" produce virtually equal number of results.
Top answer
Come on man, you can't be serious I've been knowing him for last 10 years. (this doesn't make any sense because the verb "to know" is not continuous) The only correct option to me is I've known him for last 10 years.
- Come on man, you can't be serious I've been knowing him for last 10 years.
- (this doesn't make any sense because the verb "to know" is not continuous) The only correct option to me is I've known him for last 10 years.
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31 Answers
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Come on man, you can't be serious
I've been knowing him for last 10 years. (this doesn't make any sense because the verb "to know" is not continuous)
The only correct option to me is
I've known him for last 10 years.
I've been knowing him for last 10 years. (this doesn't make any sense because the verb "to know" is not continuous)
The only correct option to me is
I've known him for last 10 years.
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IvanhrCome on man, you can't be seriousCOHA (Corpus of Historical American English) enlists 4500 instances of so-called "non-continuous" verbs USED in continuous
I've been knowing him for last 10 years. (this doesn't make any sense because the verb "to know" is not continuous)
The only correct option to me is
I've known him for last 10 years.
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Googling, as you probably know, could yield any results, correct or incorrect.
BTW
I don't see anything wrong with
I knew him for 10 years. (while he was still alive)
but
I've been knowing him.... sounds ungrammatical to me. (no need to persuade me otherwise)
Some other verbs, which are normally not continuous, can be used this way
BTW
I don't see anything wrong with
I knew him for 10 years. (while he was still alive)
but
I've been knowing him.... sounds ungrammatical to me. (no need to persuade me otherwise)
Some other verbs, which are normally not continuous, can be used this way
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quote user="rinoceronte"]Googling "been knowing" today gives 346 000 results.[/quote]
Yes I had a look. The first few pages are students and teachers discussing why you cannot say "I have been knowing...." Others go on to "It has been nice knowing you". I did not go any further but I assume they are further and further from your sentence. Can you show one of these google resu
Yes I had a look. The first few pages are students and teachers discussing why you cannot say "I have been knowing...." Others go on to "It has been nice knowing you". I did not go any further but I assume they are further and further from your sentence. Can you show one of these google resu
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IvanhrGoogling, as you probably know, could yield any results, correct or incorrect.Right, but when the number is too high, you can't keep disregarding it. Especially if people are doing that for reasons.
IvanhrI don't see anything wrong withThanks, that's valuable.
I knew him for 10 years. (while he was still alive)
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LouiseTYes I had a look.You might want to have a look at this as well:
http://community.livejournal.com/real_english/13477.html
http://community.l
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OK I had a look at those links and notice that the first one had a link to "stative verbs" where you have written the same article as the original post here. I am not sure what this proves apart from that you can write the same things on 2 forums.
I can see that you have a list of references most of which are quotes from literature. This does not necessarily mean that they are grammatica
I can see that you have a list of references most of which are quotes from literature. This does not necessarily mean that they are grammatica
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LouiseTOK I had a look at those links and notice that the first one had a link to "stative verbs" where you have written the same article as the original post here. I am not sure what this proves apart from that you can write the same things on 2 forums.What's wrong with occasional re-posting from my blog to this forum of things I want to share with people?
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English grammar has changed a lot since Uncle Tom's Cabin. (or even in the last 50 years) While this usage of "have been knowing" could have been considered correct in the past, I'm sure that modern English would dismiss it as substandard and incorrect.
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IvanhrEnglish grammar has changed a lot since Uncle Tom's Cabin. (or even in the last 50 years) While this usage of "have been knowing" could have been considered correct in the past, I'm sure that modern English would dismiss it as substandard and incorrect.Thomas Harris, Cecil Brown, George Singleton, and George P. Pelecanos used "to know" in continuous ten
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