Grammar for native speakers

Question

Hi, I am a native English speaker (UK) that struggles with English Grammar. I have been told my grammar is terrible, often when I think it is OK, and cannot identify any grammatical mistake. This has made me very subconscious when I have to write, especially in the workplace. I am 37 years old and managed to achieve postgraduate qualification in law, albeit we were not allowed to be marked down because of poor grammar.

Over the years I have tried to rectify this shortcoming. I have purchased numerous grammar books from highly recommended authors: Crystal et al, but none have helped. Why? They all concentrate on what is a verb, pronoun, adjective etc. They explain tenses, determiners, articles and just about every grammatical term under the sun. I read and understand these terms, but they do not help me when it comes to my written work. Here is my confusion: when I write, I think about what I want to say and then I write it down. I guess I read aloud in my head and write down the result. This was effectively my grammar education at school.

I do not start to write and think about verbs, pronouns, adjectives, where to place an adverb. Is that how other people think when they write? To date, multiple grammar books have only served to worsen my confidence in my own ability. Clearly my aim is to be able to write with the confidence that what I have written is correct. Having to keep writing emails at work to 300 people awaiting that one comment that your grammar is terrible. Any advice would be appreciated. Regards, Benjamin

Philip · Accepted Answer

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Vorpar · Answer

For native speakers, grammar is intuitive; knowing where to put parts of speech comes naturally. Without an example of the offending language, I'm guessing that written sentence structure is the problem. Concentrate on studying about independent and dependent clauses; compound and complex sentences; and punctuation.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Hello Phandy (Benjamin);

Welcome to EnglishForward!

I have a few thoughts on your post.

First, have you been evaluated for or diagnosed with a disability, such as dyslexia? There are particular exercises which help overcome disabilities. Very intelligent people sometimes have this sort of impediment.

Second, you may be barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps grammar is not your fundamental problem, but effective writing is.
One of the best resources for business writing is this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0070393087/ref=rdr_ext_tmb and you can get a used copy for a very modest price.

Third, if you have uncertainties about a particular word, and are particularly concerned about a piece of writing, then consult a dictionary. For example, you used the word subconscious when you meant self-conscious. There are good vocabulary-building books around, but I'd suggest an on-line dictionary.
http://www.onelook.com/?w=subconscious&ls=a

http://www.onelook.com/?w=self-conscious&ls=a

Finally, you can post typical writing patterns here and have one of the experts give you feedback. Having one's mistakes described is a very potent tool for self-improvement.

Good luck! It's never too late to learn!

Phandy · Answer

Thank you all for your replies. I will read them again and reply tomorrow. Benjamin

Cool Breeze · Answer

Hi Benjamin,
Your grammar isn't terrible. I don't think you'd benefit a great deal from grammar books. My suggestion is simply that you read English written by people who have a good command of it. You could read about a dozen acknowledged novels and, if you don't fancy those, anything written by people who have a good grasp of English will do.

There isn't much point in focusing on the varying grammatical terminology you encounter in grammar books. Most of the writers just seem to try to impress other grammarians. Labels are unimportant. From what you wrote, I get the impression that even though you are a university graduate, you may not have read enough English books written by people with a good command of the English language.

One cannot master a language from grammar books. No doubt you have had enough conversational practice as English is your native language. What you may be lacking is reading English—English written by people who have a good knowledge of the language.

CB

MalRey · Answer

I agree with Cool Breeze. You need to find something that interests you and read. It doesn't matter what the subject is (fiction, science, politics, whatever) it only matters that you have sufficient interest to read and that what you read is written by native speakers for native speakers. You'll be surprised how much you pick up. Don't read just one author, the idea is to expose yourself to a wide variety of styles and vocabularies and you can only do that by reading many different authors, preferably writing on many different topics. And whatever you do, don't get hung up on trying to identify the parts of speech, as a native speaker you only need to worry about that if you take a grammar class (but don't take a grammar class <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>).

Phandy · Answer

Apologies for the delay in replying. Dyslexic? Possible! No doubt I will have to take an assessment for that. I do know that I often mix up words that sound the same: hear, here, know, no etc.

I should read more; I have never found a genre that really interests me. I looked up the book referenced above and will order it from Amazon.

I spent a while looking at the Plain English campaign material. Again, it quickly confused me. Instructions such as: use the Active not Passive; identify the Subject, Verb, Object in the sentence, do not help. In the examples given they are pretty straightforward: 'James kicked the ball,' but I struggle when applying to my own written work, because I struggle to identify the Verb, Subject, Object, Noun, Gerund etc in my own sentences.

I learned what an adverb, pronoun is etc (pretty straightforward) but then struggled to apply what I had learned and could not identity correctly the various parts of speech in my own written work. It did get quite amusing, sitting at work with a simple two paragraph email trying to identify the Verb, Object, Preposition to establish whether everything was in the correct order and grammatically correct. In the end I just did not send the email as I got into such a twist.

Again, the main aim is to install some confidence that what I write is grammatically correct. The main trick I use is does the sentence make sense. I read out aloud a sentence I have written and imagine someone is saying it to me. If what they say is clear and makes sense, I presume it is correct.

Benjamin

AlpheccaStars · Answer

PhandyAgain, the main aim is to install some confidence that what I write is grammatically correct. The main trick I use is does the sentence make sense. I read out aloud a sentence I have written and imagine someone is saying it to me. If what they say is clear and makes sense, I presume it is correct.

That's the spirit!

The main trick I use is to ask myself, "Does the sentence make sense?"
I read out aloud a sentence I have written and imagine someone is saying it to me. (Either use "out loud" or "aloud")

PhandyI have never found a genre that really interests me.

Do you have any hobbies or subjects that interest you?

PhandyI learned what an adverb, pronoun is etc (pretty straightforward) but then struggled to apply what I had learned and could not identity correctly the various parts of speech in my own written work.

That's why modern grammarians have objected to traditional grammar - sometimes syntax and labeling is not at all clear!

Phandyuse the Active not Passive;

That should be relatively easy, but you cannot avoid it all the time.

For example, where the actor is unknown, or you don't want to reveal them :

Dull, monotonous and boring speeches were given throughout the morning of the first day of the conference. And the following sessions were not any better.

Phandy · Answer

AlpheccaStars could be correct. Just had an interesting conversation with my Father regarding this site. It goes, in short: "Well you do know you were dyslexic?" "Really? I don't remember this!" "Yes, when you were about 9/10 we sent you to see a lady every Saturday morning to treat your dyslexia." "You mean that lady that use to give me sweets whenever I visited her?" "Yes." "******!"

This might explain a few things, and move my quest in a new direction.

Benjamin

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