good wine needs no bush

Question

Hi,If you could tell me if this proverb (whose meaning  is perfectly clear to me) is common enought in modern AE?Perhaps there are other similar sayings/proverbs ( conveying the same idea yet  probably more common today)? I would appreciate it if you could give me some examples of this kind.mus-te

Clive · Accepted Answer

I've never heard that. What does it mean?

Anonymous · Answer

I've never heard this before, but I'm guessing this means that if the wine is good, there's no need to know what vineyard it came from, that is, something good is good, no matter what its origin.

This type of attitude is only grudgingly accepted in the US, where considerable value is given to origins (e.g.: chip off the old block, family values, comes from good stock, comes from a good family, etc.). In the case of wine, you'd more likely hear, in the US: "We'll serve no wine before its time (the wine has to be properly aged before it's presentable, that is, its background has to be good)." But there are a few sayings that reflect the view in your proverb:

You can't keep a good man down (no matter what his background).

Talent will rise (no matter what its background).

Rover_KE · Answer

GPY · Answer

AnonymousI've never heard this before, but I'm guessing this means that if the wine is good, there's no need to know what vineyard it came from, that is, something good is good, no matter what its origin.

According to all the sources I can find, it refers to the practice of advertising wine for sale with the use of some kind of foliage display, not to the vineyard of origin.

GPY · Answer

MUSCOVITEIf you could tell me if this proverb (whose meaning is perfectly clear to me) is common enought in modern AE?

I'm curious to know how the meaning is clear to you, when it would be entirely obscure to any native speaker who didn't already know it. Is there a similar saying in Russia? Is the practice that it refers to well known in Russia?

MUSCOVITE · Answer

GPYI'm curious to know how the meaning is clear to you, when it would be entirely obscure to any native speaker who didn't already know it. Is there a similar saying in Russia? Is the practice that it refers to well known in Russia?

Curiously, I learned this proverb many (20+) years ago, reading a British book about the origin of various English proverbs, sayings, etc. The proverb was (and is) "especially interesting" to me because from that time on I have known that "bush" might also mean "tavern"...

Btw, many online dictionaries still mention that "bush" used to mean "tavern" (or "a tavern's sign") in the past.
Please check

https://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/bush

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/bush#bush_1

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bush

Long story short, you must confess that "Good wine needs no tavern" is very very straight-forward?
(As for a similar saying in Russia.... for Northerners like us it should be someting like "good vodka needs no joint"

)

MUSCOVITE · Answer

AnonymousI've never heard this before, but I'm guessing this means that if the wine is good, there's no need to know what vineyard it came from, that is, something good is good, no matter what its origin.This type of attitude is only grudgingly accepted in the US, where considerable value is given to origins (e.g.: chip off the old block, family values, comes from good stock, comes from a good family, etc.). In the case of wine, you'd more likely hear, in the US: "We'll serve no wine before its time (the wine has to be properly aged before it's presentable, that is, its background has to be good)." But there are a few sayings that reflect the view in your proverb: You can't keep a good man down (no matter what his background).Talent will rise (no matter what its background).

Hi Anon!
Thank you for your comments!
Your examples are really interesting (

) but ... to be honest they can't seem replace the more general Good wine needs no bush (tavern).

Btw, in your opinion, is "to gild refined gold" close enough in meaning to "Good wine needs no bush"?

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITEmany online dictionaries still mention that "bush" used to mean "tavern"

Nevertheless, I can't agree that this is the relevant definition for the proverb, though "sign" comes closer. I believe the appropriate definition is a bunch of ivy formerly hung outside a tavern to indicate wine for sale.

To say that the wine needs no bush is not to say that it needs no tavern (place to buy it; place to drink it), but to say that it needs no ivy (i.e., it doesn't need to be advertised). In short, if it's good, everyone knows all about it already — where to buy it, how much it costs, etc.

CJ

MUSCOVITE · Answer

CalifJimI believe the appropriate definition is a bunch of ivy formerly hung outside a tavern to indicate wine for sale.

OK. Thanks for the clarification!

Let me recap.
(1) "Good wine needs no bush" = "Good quality things need no advertisement".
(2) "Good wine needs no bush" is very rare and very obscure to the overwhelming majority of native AE&BE speakers.

Now, back to the starting point.
I have been looking for a common phrase/proverb/saying meaning
"QUALITY THINGS/GOOD PEOPLE NEED NO ADVERTISING/VERBOSE PRAISES, ETC." (because they are self-sufficient, their merits are obvious, etc.)

It is essential that this phrase be equally applicable to both things and human beings.

EXAMPLE:
Imagine Person A has (for a long while) been talking to Person B about how good Person C is. :-)
Person B, who gets sick and tired of such "bad vibration", finally decides to stop it by saying,
"Okay, okay. We all know that Mr. C is a ***-like creature but ... good wine needs no bush ...dont you agree?"

Could you please recast this example replacing the "good wine needs no bush" part with the right phrase (but possibly leaving the rest of the example intact)?

CalifJim · Answer

MUSCOVITEWe all know that Mr. C is a ***-like creature but ... good wine needs no bush ...dont you agree?

I'm afraid I can only come up with something rather pedestrian, namely,

We all know ... but that goes without saying, don't you agree?

I'll have to think about this a little more and see if I can't come up with something more snazzy.

CJ

good wine needs no bush

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