God bless you and til death do us part

Question

Why not 'God blessES you'? Or is it a shortened version of 'may God bless you'?

Also, why not 'Til death doES us part'?

Or is it because they are formulaic expressions and therefore need not to follow rigid rules of grammar?

Paco2004 · Accepted Answer

They are the relics of the present subjunctive mood that was very commonly used under strict rules. In my opinion, the partial deterioration of the subjunctive mood is one of the factors that make the current English grammar somehow messy. If you are interested in it, please visit [url=http://www.ceafinney.com/subjunctive/excerpts.html]here[/url].

paco

Pieanne · Answer

"*** blesses you" would be stating a fact, which is not the meaning of the expression. So yes, it may be a shortened version of "May *** bless you", or 'simply' a subjunctive. See "*** save the queen", or "Long live the king".

As to the other, I have no idea, sorry...

Gobsmacked · Answer

Thank you for your contributions. You see, there are so many exceptions to a language and lots of unexplainable usages too. Anyway let us not give up.

MrPedantic · Answer

Yes, I'd take both as present subjunctives too.

MrP

PS: Sorry we're so messy, Paco...I blame our predecessors...

Anonymous · Answer

Technically, if one WERE TO FOLLOW strict English grammar, "till death DOES us part" would be incorrect because the conjunction "until" 99.9% of the time will take the present subjunctive form:

Example: We won't speak to you until we BE given an attorney. Don't say anything until he SHOW you some evidence.

The song, "America the Beautiful" has some lines that stick out:

Till all success BE nobleness and every gain divine. Till selfish gain no longer STAIN the banner of the free.

Most people simply don't follow the rule. For example, "one were to follow" above is the English form of the future subjunctive. The future subjunctive is formed with a conjugated past subjunctive form of the verb "to be" plus the infinitive of the verb being put in the future subjunctive. So here we go:

the infinitive: to follow

gerund: following

present participle: following

preterite: followed

past participle: followed

present tense ind.: follow/follows

present tense subj.: follow

preterite subjunctive: followed

Future indicative: He will follow English grammar rules.

Future subjunctive: If he were to follow English grammar rules, he would sound more intelligent.

Past indicative: He followed me to the baseball field earlier.

Past subjunctive: If he followed directions more closely, he wouldn't get lost.

Present indicative: He follows the law.

Present subjunctive: It is important that he follow the law.

Present perfect indicative: He has followed me before.

Present perfect subjunctive: I would rather he have followed the directions.

Past perfect indicative: I had followed him for an hour before we lost track of him.

Past perfect subjunctive: I wish he had followed my advice.

Present progressive indicative: He says he is following your advice by not going.

Present progressive subjunctive: *** forbid he be following the law.

Past progressive indicative: He was following his friend's car when it lost control.

Past progressive subjunctive: If he were following instructions, there would be no problem.

These are just some examples. Most people don't follow them, though so that leads to ambiguity, especially in the present subjunctive. Here are some present subjunctive examples that 95% of people don't follow:

I shall just wait until he come home.

He'll do it now so that it be done when he gets home tomorrow.

If he do well on his test, he will pass the class.

As long as he listen to me, he'll be all right.

Anonymous · Answer

Referring to "Till death do us part", I would agree with you if one were to follow strict English grammar.

How about "Till death us do part"? (It's commonly used in the UK.)

If I'm not mistaken, "Till death us do part" basically means "Till death us part" which follows strict Latin grammar. It's like saying "Till death we part" in English.

In Latin, the object comes before the verb in such a sentence. That's why "us" is used instead of "we".

Therefore, "Till death us do part" is like saying "Till death we do part" in which the verb "part" is emphasized.

As an advanced learner of English, I've never come across the verb pattern like "Death do/does us part" since "part" is a verb here. It's a verb, not noun. If it's a noun, it doesn't make sense, does it?

As an example, let's consider "Milk does your body good". Here, "good" is a noun, right? (Of course, it's not an adjective.)

Please advise me.

God bless you and til death do us part

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Technically, if one WERE TO FOLLOW strict English grammar, "till death DOES us part" would be incorrect because the conjunction "until" 99.9% of the time will take the present subjunctive form:

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