Getting stuck with this sentence!!!

Question

"But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes will over-occupy the space.But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes will over-occupy the space."

There are many difficult points of grammar in this sentence to understand. My idea is
to the extent that refers to considering some aspects
But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely = But to the extent that women doesn’t come naturally in an effort to do precisely
Is it OK if I reorder this sentences as above? Thanks for your help!

GPY · Accepted Answer

"to the extent that" is a correct expression but it doesn't seem to fit your sentence. "to the extent that" requires an explanation of what extent. For example, in "Sales have fallen badly this year, to the extent that we will have to close some of our shops"*, the clause "we will have to close some of our shops" explains the extent. In your sentence this piece of information is missing. At first I thought you meant "to an extent that doesn’t come naturally" (which roughly means "to an unnatural extent"), but reading your description again I'm not sure.

Also, I don't understand what you mean by "over-occupy the space".

"But to the extent that women doesn’t come naturally in an effort to do precisely" does not make any sense (makes less sense than the original).

* http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/extent

Pawpaw Tran · Answer

Hi GPY! Thank you for your reply. I do agree with your idea about "to the extent that". This is just a litle part of an interview on NY Times. Frankly, there are many confusing phrases like this.
Q.
So women and the companies they work for both have to help with that transition?
A.
It has to be both. One problem is that we say to women that you have to claim your voice. Don’t make statements that sound like questions. Don’t be afraid to speak up. Own the room. Speak with confidence. But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes will over-occupy the space.

In my opinion, "over-occupy the space" refers to extensively occupy woman's workplace.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Context helps a lot.

The person suggests that women do not, by their nature, feel confident being assertive and speaking up. However, they know they should. Because they are not comfortable doing this, they "overdo" it - they may come across as bossy, demanding, and a know-it-all instead of assertive.

Again - this is the speaker's suggestion. This is not my personal view!

CalifJim · Answer

Pawpaw TranBut to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely = But to the extent that women doesn’t come naturally in an effort to do precisely

Not really, no. Your attempt to paraphrase may actually be less clear than the original sentence. Don't worry about it, though, because this sentence is quite difficult to parse, especially the first phrase, with 'to the extent', which I think should be reworded to clarify its meaning. Here's my idea of what the author was trying to say, even though I'm still not sure of the exact meaning.

But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes will over-occupy the space. =

But in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes women will over-occupy the space. They do this to a degree (extent) that does not come naturally to women. (They do this in a more extreme way than what seems natural to them.)

CJ

Pawpaw Tran · Answer

BarbaraPAContext helps a lot.The person suggests that women do not, by their nature, feel confident being assertive and speaking up. However, they know they should. Because they are not comfortable doing this, they "overdo" it - they may come across as bossy, demanding, and a know-it-all instead of assertive.Again - this is the speaker's suggestion. This is not my personal view!

I got your explanation. It helps me a lot. Many thanks!

Pawpaw Tran · Answer

CalifJimNot really, no. Your attempt to paraphrase may actually be less clear than the original sentence. Don't worry about it, though, because this sentence is quite difficult to parse, especially the first phrase, with 'to the extent', which I think should be reworded to clarify its meaning. Here's my idea of what the author was trying to say, even though I'm still not sure of the exact meaning.But to the extent that doesn’t come naturally, women, in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes will over-occupy the space. =But in an effort to do precisely what they’ve been told, sometimes women will over-occupy the space. They do this to a degree (extent) that does not come naturally to women. (They do this in a more extreme way than what seems natural to them.)CJ

Thank you CJ. Due to all your help, I finished my translation. I tried to paraphrase to understand that sentense easily, but everything seems to be wrong. I can't find anything in the various dictionaries to help myself. This really drives me crazy. I wish you knew my language to read my translation. Actually, translation is difficult job. Again, thank you very much!

CalifJim · Answer

Pawpaw Tran Actually, translation is difficult job.

VERY difficult. I know. I have done translations.

CJ

Pawpaw Tran · Answer

Getting stuck with this sentence!!!

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