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Believer Posted 19 years ago
Grammar
gerund or verbal noun
Hi,
Please tell me whether the parts mentioned are a gerund or verbal noun.
1. Doll had this writing underneath her recent posts and I think it is called her signature.
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but lighting of a fire." W.B. Yeats
Are 'filling' and 'lighting' gerunds or verbal nouns? How could you tell the difference?
2. He heard a clamour and a barking of dogs under ...
Is 'barking' a gerund or verbal noun? How could you tell the difference?
3. Only salt can preserve things from spoiling.
This one seems to be clear and the word 'spoiling' seems to be a gerund with 'from' being a preposition. OK? But if the sentence is changed to (into??) this, then can it make the situation be different?
The spoiling of food can be prevented by using salt.
Is 'spoiling' here a gerund? I don't think so -- it looks to be a verbal noun in that it has the article 'the' in front of it. Gerunds cannot have the article 'the' or 'a' in front them?
Please tell me whether the parts mentioned are a gerund or verbal noun.
1. Doll had this writing underneath her recent posts and I think it is called her signature.
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but lighting of a fire." W.B. Yeats
Are 'filling' and 'lighting' gerunds or verbal nouns? How could you tell the difference?
2. He heard a clamour and a barking of dogs under ...
Is 'barking' a gerund or verbal noun? How could you tell the difference?
3. Only salt can preserve things from spoiling.
This one seems to be clear and the word 'spoiling' seems to be a gerund with 'from' being a preposition. OK? But if the sentence is changed to (into??) this, then can it make the situation be different?
The spoiling of food can be prevented by using salt.
Is 'spoiling' here a gerund? I don't think so -- it looks to be a verbal noun in that it has the article 'the' in front of it. Gerunds cannot have the article 'the' or 'a' in front them?
Top answer
Hi, I haven't heard the expression 'a verbal noun'. How would you define it? Yes, gerunds can have an article.
- Hi, I haven't heard the expression 'a verbal noun'.
- How would you define it?
- Yes, gerunds can have an article.
- Clive
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33 Answers
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Hi,
I haven't heard the expression 'a verbal noun'. How would you define it?
Yes, gerunds can have an article.
Clive
I haven't heard the expression 'a verbal noun'. How would you define it?
Yes, gerunds can have an article.
Clive
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CliveHi,When I was studying Turkish, we used the term 'verbal noun' to identify a verb form made into a noun by adding suffixes to denote person, possession, time, ability, etc. These one
I haven't heard the expression 'a verbal noun'. How would you define it?
Yes, gerunds can have an article.
Clive
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We call it "fiilimsiler" canim arkadasim Philip. Believer, give us the definiton of verbal noun so that we can help you. I have never heard it before. If you consider that I am 19, this is normal though.
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On the definition of the verbal noun:
In a neighbor thread called "verbal noun vs. gerund" are stated some features that draw a difference between verbal nouns and gerunds:
1. It differs from the participle in being always used as a noun: It never belongs to or limits a noun.
2. It differs from the verbal noun in having the property of governing a noun (which
In a neighbor thread called "verbal noun vs. gerund" are stated some features that draw a difference between verbal nouns and gerunds:
1. It differs from the participle in being always used as a noun: It never belongs to or limits a noun.
2. It differs from the verbal noun in having the property of governing a noun (which
00
All of your examples are gerunds if we stick to modern terminology.
Forget about the terminology verbal noun. It's total garbage!
It has many different definitions, depending on the author and when the grammar book was written.
___________
The modern definition is given at
Forget about the terminology verbal noun. It's total garbage!
It has many different definitions, depending on the author and when the grammar book was written.
___________
The modern definition is given at
00
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know that source was so old.
So, assuming the modern terminology, the term gerund comprehends a much wider class of (?)words. And the "gerunds" in the examples below are very different but all gerunds, while the old grammarians would have called 1.1 and 2.1 verbal nouns.
1.1 «The singing was excellent»
1.2 «I like singing "Goin' home"»
So, assuming the modern terminology, the term gerund comprehends a much wider class of (?)words. And the "gerunds" in the examples below are very different but all gerunds, while the old grammarians would have called 1.1 and 2.1 verbal nouns.
1.1 «The singing was excellent»
1.2 «I like singing "Goin' home"»
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A grammar is only a view of language. No matter what terminology, if it helps avoid mistakes and explain phenomena, then the grammar is good. For Russians traditional grammar is good, because its rules are easier to understand from Russian POV... I remember an American trying to explain the meaning of prepositions to a Chinese... It was something...
I think that trying to simplify unders
I think that trying to simplify unders
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... the old grammarians would have called 1.1 and 2.1 verbal nouns. No. See below. See Sect. 273 of B&S. All examples with the ---ing of --- are called gerunds there.
1.1 «The singing was excellent» I'm not sure what B&S would call this, but neither verbal noun nor gerund is out of the question.
1.1 «The singing was excellent» I'm not sure what B&S would call this, but neither verbal noun nor gerund is out of the question.
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CJ,
He would not sit down until he had had his say in the matter.
Do you mean like 'a bite' from 'to bite'?
Don't you think that in He heard dogs barking barking is a participle?
Compare: She found the room empty
He would not sit down until he had had his say in the matter.
Do you mean like 'a bite' from 'to bite'?
Don't you think that in He heard dogs barking barking is a participle?
Compare: She found the room empty
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Schetin
«A grammar is only a view of language. No matter what terminology, if it helps avoid mistakes and explain phenomena, then the grammar is good.»
Very true. Also I'd say this: Rules describe the language, not define it. Rules follow from the language just like physical laws reflect reality, not vice versa.
«I think that trying to simplify understanding modern grammar m
«A grammar is only a view of language. No matter what terminology, if it helps avoid mistakes and explain phenomena, then the grammar is good.»
Very true. Also I'd say this: Rules describe the language, not define it. Rules follow from the language just like physical laws reflect reality, not vice versa.
«I think that trying to simplify understanding modern grammar m
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