Gave me vs. gave to me?

Question

In English we say "My parents gave me a car.", but "Who gave you that car?" - "My parents gave it TO me.".
Why is the "to" necessary in the last sentence but not in the first? Whatever rule is being followed here, can it be illustrated with verbs other than "give" and prepositions other than "to"? I'm unable to think of any.

(my ESL students and I) Thank you, Bob

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Whatever rule is being followed here, can it be illustrated with verbs other than "give" and prepositions other than "to"?[/nq]
The rule is that a verb doesn't take an indirect object when its direct object is a personal pronoun. The personal pronoun is expected to follow the verb directly, so the indirect object can't come before it. What would have been the indirect object gets turned into a prepositional phrase instead. When the direct object isn't a personal pronoun, the same construction gives emphasis to the indirect object: "gave the car to me," "gave the car to my sister."
The preposition is determined by the nature of the action. "To" is probably most common, since it's used for actions directed towards the indirect object. You can sell something to someone, tell it to him, read it to him, send it to him, lend it to him, offer it to him, pay it to him, take it to him, bring it to him. If it's a question or request, you can ask it of him. If it's something you create or obtain, you can make it for him, bake it for him, knit it for him, build it for him, buy it for him, order it for him, get it for him.
I'm sure there must be other prepositions that are used this way, but they're eluding me right now.
¬R

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Whatever rule is being followed here, can it be illustrated with verbs other than "give" and prepositions other than "to"?[/nq]
[nq:1]The rule is that a verb doesn't take an indirect object when its direct object is a personal pronoun.[/nq]
Oh, really?
[nq:1]The personal pronoun is expected to follow the verb directly, so the indirect object can't come before it. What would ... for him. I'm sure there must be other prepositions that are used this way, but they're eluding me right now.[/nq]
"Make it with him", "bake it with him", "knit it with him", "build it with him", "buy it with him", "buy it from him", "order it with him", "order it from him", "get it with him", "get it from him". And " it without him".
Then there are "despite" and "notwithstanding", which can be used in all those positions. Also "alongside".
Get it despite him.
Get it notwithstanding him.
Get it alongside him.
There are probably lots more that would come to mind with a little more time.
But I continue to think there's nothing wrong grammatically with "Give me you now", as an impassioned seducee might say to her seducer. A little out of the mainstream, maybe, but not ungrammatical.
But "Give me him" is a perfectly ordinary statement that a group leader might say quite grammatically to someone who is assigning personnel to groups. And it's nicely less circumlocutious than "Give him to me".

Bob Cunningham > Possibly the most asinine political statement Southern California > of this or any other century: "The objective USofA > of securing the safety of Americans from crime

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"Make it with him", "bake it with him", "knit it with him", "build it with him", "buy it with him", ... get> it without him". Then there are "despite" and "notwithstanding", which can be used in all those positions. Also "alongside".[/nq]
None of these uses relate to indirect objects. At least, I don't think I've ever said that I "knit him a sweater" when I meant that I knitted it with him, or without or despite or alongside him.
¬R "MY FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WON'T STOP BLEEEEEEING!" Poot Rootbeer

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In English we say "My parents gave me a car.", but "Who gave you that car?" - "My parents gave ... "give" and prepositions other than "to"? I'm unable to think of any. (my ESL students and I) Thank you, Bob[/nq]
The two pronouns (me, it) demand the "to". English is not structured enough to allow "My parents gave me it.", though I have heard that construction.
GFH

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In English we say "My parents gave me a car.", but "Who gave you that car?" - "My parents gave ... "give" and prepositions other than "to"? I'm unable to think of any. (my ESL students and I) Thank you, Bob[/nq]
It's not necessary.
Give it me
Give me it
Give it to me
are all quite normal, only "Give to me it" is not used.

It's regional - indeed there is a book that contains a map in which the location (in UK) of which of the 3 usages is most common. Unfortunately I cannot remember which book. No doubt someone out there will know. In the unlikely event I remember / find it ... John
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John A Green
Leigh (Lancashire) or Aberdeen

Usenet · Answer

If you have heard it several times by native speakers, then English is flexible enough to allow it.
As often with grammar discussions, a greater familiarity with the wide range of actual expressions leads to a less dogmatic and more tolerant perspective.
Both original sentences are fine. That's the real, descriptive answer. Specialists can imagine and generate any odd number of alleged, absolute rules prohibiting this or that, often leading to slightly superior scores on the old TOEFL exam. Yet a lexical based, empirical review of English as actually spoken will generate far, far fewer "structural rules" than the many peculiar ones that populate many popular grammar books.

Usenet · Answer

Thank you Glenn. What a difficult langauge we speak! I feel so sorry for my ESL students.
Bob

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"Make it with him", "bake it with him", "knit it ... which can be used in all those positions. Also "alongside".[/nq]
[nq:1]None of these uses relate to indirect objects. At least, I don't think I've ever said that I "knit him a sweater" when I meant that I knitted it with him, or without or despite or alongside him.[/nq]
You're right of course. 'Scuse me.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]But "Give me him" is a perfectly ordinary statement that a group leader might say quite grammatically to someone who is assigning personnel to groups.[/nq]
You're right. I think what's going on here is that "him" is in a demonstrative role, rather than simply acting as a personal pronoun. If you were choosing a meal rather than a person, you'd say "give me that," not "give me it," right?
Of course, the other rule is that rules have exceptions. Whether that rule itself has exceptions is, of course, a question for the barber who shaves every man who doesn't shave himself.
"It's not the size of the boat, it's Matt McIrvin" Joe ¬R / http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/ny2001.html / Manfre

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Thank you Glenn. What a difficult langauge we speak!You do not![/nq]
Wanna try something difficult? - Learn Thai or Finnish or Turkish or ... need some more?
It's a question of perspective:
I, a native German speaker, am so happy that the world's leading language - English - is so similar to my own language - at least compared to all those 'weird' language out there.

Marc

Gave me vs. gave to me?

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