For two weeks/ in two weeks (exam question)

Question

a. John painted for two weeks.

b. John painted in two weeks.

c. John painted the wall for two weeks.

d. John painted the wall in two weeks.

Explain why (a) is grammtical but (b) is not and how the meaning of the verb painted in (c) is different from the one in (d).

This is a question in a real English teacher's qualification exam in Korea.

How would you answer it. They look the same, it's hard for me to answer

B.Dreamer · Accepted Answer

I think that (a.) means that John spent the entire two weeks painting. However, (b.) means that "John has finished painting in the future", which doesn't make sense. The verb "painted" is in the past tense (meaning that John has already painted the wall), but the preposition "in" means that John will paint the wall sometime in the future - using both creates a discrepancy in logical time order.

In (c.) and (d.) the word "painted" has the same meaning. The different prepositions are what change the meaning. In (c.), the word "for" means that John spent the whole two weeks painting the wall. In (d.), the word "in" means that John finished painting the wall before two weeks had gone by.

I hope that helps.

CalifJim · Answer

moon7296 it's hard for me to answer

Don't you even want to try?

______________________________

1. to paint vs to paint something

a) When someone paints (but is not painting a particular object), he is engaged in "painting activity". Think of an artist who paints. There is no goal. That is, there is no end point. There is no particular task that must be finished. He may go on painting and painting and painting until he dies!

.......... < - - - he painted - - - > ............ X ...... (X = the present moment)

b) When someone paints something, he is attempting to finish a task. There will be an end to the task. The task will probably not go on forever. Eventually, the thing he is painting will be painted. The task will be complete. However, before he finishes, he is engaged in "painting activity", just as described above.

............{ - - - - - he painted something ! } ........ X ...... (! = the task is finished)

______________________________

2. for a period of time (in the past) vs in a period of time (in the past)

a) When someone performs an action for a period of time, he is engaged in an activity. There is no goal. Or the goal has not been accomplished yet. The idea is that he engaged in a certain activity for (during) a certain amount of time (without finishing).

< = the person starts the activity

............ < - - - - - - - - - - - - - > ..........X..... > = the time period ends; the activity stops

for a period of time

b) When someone performs an action in a period of time, he accomplishes a goal. He finishes. The idea is that a certain amount of time was required to accomplish his goal.

{ = the person starts to work toward his goal

............ { - - - - - - - - - - - - - ! } ..........X..... ! } = the task is finished

in a period of time

______________________

If there is no goal, for a period makes sense; in a period is nonsense.
in a period never works if there is no goal that is accomplished.

If there is a goal, for a period makes sense, but the goal is not accomplished during that time.
If there is a goal, in a period makes sense, and the goal is accomplished at the end of the period.
_____________

Can you explain those four sentences now?

CJ

Moon7296 · Answer

Oh.. CJ......... I want to say this. I love you .......................................... oh not that way...

That line actually is from the American sitcom 'Friends.': season 7

Phoebe says to Ross I love you. (silent..for seconds) oh not that way..

The situation is Ross gives a fabulous bike to Phoebe as a gift. He prepared it because she never had a bike in her poor childhood.

Like you said I think I could have tried... If so, I could have made some similar points you brought. Anyway thanks for encouraging me.

I will make an answer as a practice here based on your answer

_______________________________________________

Basically, when we hear 'someone painted,' we don't know what they painted and why they painted. When you hear people painted for two weeks, we know they painted something we do not know for two weeks; we do not know if they finished painting it because for plus duration implies an activity itself you do, and not completion of the activity. Thus (a) means John painted something we do not know and we do not know if he finished it. On contrary, (b) is ungrammatical because 'in' plus duration implies completion. Thereby (b) cannot make sence because John did not paint something particular in the two weeks which cannot imply completion for nothing. (c) implies John painted the wall but it does not imply that he finished it. On the other hand, (d) implies John completed painting the wall.

I found putting words for this question is difficult than I expected even though I fully grasped your idea. I think I should pratise more to make the essay clearer with the idea.

they paint without an aim. When people painted something, they

Moon7296 · Answer

Thank you for the effort you put on this qusetion

Your concept for 'in' is things happening in the future. I think that can make sense too for this question, especially (a) and (b). I found it hard to apply to (c) and (d) though. CJ contributed to this question, so I could understand this completly.

Thank you for your help again^^

CalifJim · Answer

moon7296Oh.. CJ.. I want to say this. I love you .. oh not that way...
That line actually is from the American sitcom 'Friends.': season 7
Phoebe says to Ross I love you. (silent..for seconds) oh not that way..
The situation is Ross gives a fabulous bike to Phoebe as a gift. He prepared it because she never had a bike in her poor childhood.

Thank you! You didn't have to explain, though. I know what "Not that way" means!

moon7296Basically, when we hear 'someone painted,' we don't know what they painted. ~~and why they painted~~. When ~~you~~ we hear people painted for two weeks, we know they painted something, but we do not know what, for two weeks; we ~~do not~~ know if that they ~~finished~~ did not finish painting it because 'for' plus duration implies an activity in itself ~~you do~~, and not completion of the activity. Thus, (a) means John painted something, but we do not know what, and we do not know if he finished it. On the contrary, (b) is ungrammatical because 'in' plus duration implies completion ~~Thereby~~ ~~(b) cannot make sense because~~ and John did not paint ~~something~~ anything in particular in the two weeks, that is, there is no mention in the sentence of anything which he could have completed painting. ~~which~~ ~~cannot imply completion~~ ~~for nothing~~. (c) implies John painted the wall, but it does not imply that he finished it. On the other hand, (d) implies John completed painting the wall.

I modified your essay a little. Pretty good!

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

moon7296Your concept for 'in' is things happening in the future.

Everything I wrote above about the use of "in" was for the use of "in" + period in the past!

It works a little differently in the future.

I will paint this picture in five days.

Two possible meanings!

1) I will start painting the picture now and I will finish five days from now.
2) I will start painting the picture five days from now (and I don't know when I will finish).

CJ

Moon7296 · Answer

HHH Thank you for correcting my answer.. ,that is, there is no mention ~~ part which connects many ideas in one sentence is really impressive!!

You know, if I didn't understand your post fully, I couldn't have written that answer. It means my sencond reply saying 'your concept for 'in' is things happening in the future.' is not my understanding from your post but from B.Dreamer's.

Anyway, thank you for the new additional points too^^

CalifJim · Answer

moon7296 It means my sencond reply saying 'your concept for 'in' is things happening in the future.' is not my understanding from your post but from B.Dreamer's.

Hah! I must have been asleep at the switch! Now I understand!

CJ

B.Dreamer · Answer

Oh, sorry Moon, I also didn't realize that the second post was directed at me. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/10.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/10.gif' alt='Emotion: embarrassed'/> I'm glad if it was any help at all; between my answer and CJ's, I also found his to be more complete. &gt;.0

For two weeks/ in two weeks (exam question)

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