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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
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For some, ships are feminine - or is that female?
There is a discussion going on in fr.lettres.langue.anglaise about the use in English of "she" and "her" for things which are not biologically female, such as cars and ships. Now, in French, a word has a gender, so that "une personne" ( = "a person" ) is "feminine" while "un écrivain" ( = "a writer" ) is "masculine," even if the person being referred to is a man and the writer being referred to is a woman. But in English, words do not have genders, with the exception of the pronouns "he" and "she" and pronouns and adjectives related to them.
It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are female" when one is speaking of the associated use of "she" and "her," but it is not appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are feminine." To speak of a ship as being feminine is something else altogether. There is nothing feminine, in my opinion, about the Enterprise in the television show *Star Trek: The Next Generation,* but when Captain Picard refers to it as "she," we could say that it was being treated as if it were female.
What is your opinion? Do you make the same distinction I do between referring to a ship as "female" and referring to it as "feminine"? Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to say "To Captain Picard, starships are female"?
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are female" when one is speaking of the associated use of "she" and "her," but it is not appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are feminine." To speak of a ship as being feminine is something else altogether. There is nothing feminine, in my opinion, about the Enterprise in the television show *Star Trek: The Next Generation,* but when Captain Picard refers to it as "she," we could say that it was being treated as if it were female.
What is your opinion? Do you make the same distinction I do between referring to a ship as "female" and referring to it as "feminine"? Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to say "To Captain Picard, starships are female"?
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Top answer
[nq:1]It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are female" when ... [/nq] I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages. Mike Hardy
- [nq:1]It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are female" when ...
- [/nq] I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages.
- Mike Hardy
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101 Answers
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[nq:1]It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to say "In English, for some people, ships are female" when ... Captain Picard refers to it as "she," we could say that it was being treated as if it were female.[/nq]
I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages. Mike Hardy
I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages. Mike Hardy
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[nq:1]There is a discussion going on in fr.lettres.langue.anglaise about the use in English of "she" and "her" for things which ... and referring to it as "feminine"? Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to say "To Captain Picard, starships are female"?[/nq]
I agree with you. A layman is unlikely to use the word "feminine" to mean "female".
Adrian
I agree with you. A layman is unlikely to use the word "feminine" to mean "female".
Adrian
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[nq:2]It seems to me then, that it is appropriate to ... that it was being treated as if it were female.[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages. Mike Hardy[/nq]
I wondered if "she" applied to a ship was a leftover from the time when Old English had nouns with gender. At Google I didn
[nq:1]I agree; speaking of ships as "she" or "her" is not at all the same thing as feminine gender of nouns in continental European languages. Mike Hardy[/nq]
I wondered if "she" applied to a ship was a leftover from the time when Old English had nouns with gender. At Google I didn
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[nq:1]I wondered if "she" applied to a ship was a leftover from the time when Old English had nouns with gender.[/nq]
According to Millward's A Biography of the English Language , in Old English "scip" and "bat" (respectively, 'ship' and 'boat') were neuter and masculine, respectively. The book has steered me wrong before, but I have no particular reason to doubt it in this case.
[nq:1]I w
According to Millward's A Biography of the English Language , in Old English "scip" and "bat" (respectively, 'ship' and 'boat') were neuter and masculine, respectively. The book has steered me wrong before, but I have no particular reason to doubt it in this case.
[nq:1]I w
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I'd raher say a ship is feminist than feminine.
I have a legitimate question (I'm a non-native speaker of English): are there any inanimate things that are masculine in the English language? I know that country, car, ship and others are of female gender.
I have a legitimate question (I'm a non-native speaker of English): are there any inanimate things that are masculine in the English language? I know that country, car, ship and others are of female gender.
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[nq:1]There is a discussion going on in fr.lettres.langue.anglaise about the use in English of "she" and "her" for things which ... and referring to it as "feminine"? Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to say "To Captain Picard, starships are female"?[/nq]
I agree with you entirely.
As a seperate matter, what about men'o'war; are they still female?
I agree with you entirely.
As a seperate matter, what about men'o'war; are they still female?
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[nq:2]I would suggest that they both read an article entitled "genitive is not always possessive",[/nq]
[nq:1] Hm. I think the above sentence has two readings with nearly opposite meanings depending on how "read" is pronounced. I infer from the context that you meant the infinitive-or-present reading of "read", not the past.[/nq]
Sometime in recent weeks or months, I've written about spell
[nq:1] Hm. I think the above sentence has two readings with nearly opposite meanings depending on how "read" is pronounced. I infer from the context that you meant the infinitive-or-present reading of "read", not the past.[/nq]
Sometime in recent weeks or months, I've written about spell
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[nq:1]Sometime in recent weeks or months, I've written about spelling (ri:d) and (rEd) two different ways, both different from "read". ... "raid"). I'm now inclined to propose "redd" for the past tense. Would anyone pronounce it any way other than (rEd)?[/nq]
What's wrong with 'red'? The only problem you're trying to solve is the fact that there is an ambiguity in writing that isn't present in
What's wrong with 'red'? The only problem you're trying to solve is the fact that there is an ambiguity in writing that isn't present in
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[nq:2]Sometime in recent weeks or months, I've written about spelling ... tense. Would anyone pronounce it any way other than (rEd)?[/nq]
[nq:1]What's wrong with 'red'?[/nq]
As long as we're making a break with the past, I favor a distinctive and unambiguous break. I now favor "redd" for the past and past participle and "reedd" for the present and infinitive. No one should mistake them for
[nq:1]What's wrong with 'red'?[/nq]
As long as we're making a break with the past, I favor a distinctive and unambiguous break. I now favor "redd" for the past and past participle and "reedd" for the present and infinitive. No one should mistake them for
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[nq:1]I'd raher say a ship is feminist than feminine.[/nq]
That makes no sense to me. "A feminist ship" might make sense if "feminist" were used attributively, so that the phrase meant "a ship belonging to or used by feminists." I found the following metaphorical use on the Internet: "How good does it have to get before we can acknowledge that the feminist ship has come in?" where it means tha
That makes no sense to me. "A feminist ship" might make sense if "feminist" were used attributively, so that the phrase meant "a ship belonging to or used by feminists." I found the following metaphorical use on the Internet: "How good does it have to get before we can acknowledge that the feminist ship has come in?" where it means tha
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