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Debpriya De Posted 17 years ago
Grammar

For clause

What is the difference in the meaning of the sentences " I want you to win." and " I want for you to win." ?
  

Top answer

The second is not a native formation.

  • The second is not a native formation.
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10 Answers
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The second is not a native formation.
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Greetings, Depriya De,

I want you to win has a to-infinitive clause (you to win). If such a clause has a subject (you), it normally requires the presence of the preceding for:

For you to win will be almost impossible.

However, when the clause is a direct object, for is generally absent before the subject:

I wa
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Is "For you to win will be almost impossible." different in meaning from " For you, to win will be almost impossible." ?
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There is no need to disrupt the clause with a comma, unless you wish to achieve a special stylistic effect. The meaning is not changed in either case.

Respectfully, Gleb Chebrikoff
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But I was under the impression that in the sentence " For you to win will be almost impossible."

" For you to win" refers to the condition of your winning. That means your winning is impossible.

In contrast the second sentence " For you, to win will be almost impossible." means that winning is impossible as far as you are concerned.
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Interesting distinction, Debpriya, although i would point out that the sentence says almost impossible which means that "For you, to win is possible but unlikely." I think you could leave out the comma and the sentence would mean the same, correct? Would this person have less chance of winning if it was 'almost impossible' or if it were just 'unlikely'?

Best wishes,
TrysB
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Your impression is on the whole justified, and to this I referred as 'a special stylistic effect' that placing a comma may have. Consider this:

- Do I stay any chance of winning?
- For you to win will be almost impossible. For him to win is quite realistic.

Depending on the exact intonation pattern, both shades of meaning can be expressed; reinforcing this with punctuation i
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I understand that intonation patterns can help distinguish the intended meaning , but the question is - What is the proper way to express both the meanings while writing ? Is the punctuation an accepted form in this regard ?
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Debpriya Dethe second sentence " For you, to win will be almost impossible." means that winning is impossible as far as you are concerned.
That well may be true, but it's so ambiguous that it is best reworded to remove the ambiguity. Following your lead,

As far as you are concerned, winning will be almost impossible.
In your opinion,
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Debpriya,

How to express the same feeling in the written words that is heard in tone of voice when speaking is one of the great challenges for a writer. It borders on poetry--the sound of the words in your mind and their cadence in the sentence rather than the literal meaning.

I think to say what you want to say would require rewriting the sentences. Maybe like this: For you, i

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