For

Question

He inspected the car for defects.About the 'for' above, is it semantically the same as those in 'look for', 'search for', 'long for', 'wait for'? Or is it different?

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

Sometimes it is difficult to draw a distinct line between a phrasal verb and a verb followed by an adverbial prepositional phrase.

In this case, "for defects" is a prepositional phrase. "For" does not change the meaining of "inspect".

"look for" is a phrasal verb, because its meaning is different than just "look"

CalifJim · Answer

TakaOr is it different?

It is different.

He inspected the car for defects. = He inspected the car in order to find defects.

But He waited for the bus. not= He waited in order to find the bus.

To search for a car is not the same as to search a car for something.

CJ

Taka · Answer

Those fors of phrasal verbs I presented as examples are defined as 'to get' in this dictionary:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=30332&dict=CALD

or as 'used to indicate the object of a desire, intention, or perception:had a nose for news; eager for success' in this dictionary:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/13/F0241300.html

Do you still think it's different in kind? If you do, then which 'for' is it among the definitions shown in the dictionaries above?

CalifJim · Answer

Takawhich 'for' is it among the definitions shown in the dictionaries above?

Where "it" refers to the "for" in "inspect for defects", I would say that the first two definitions in Bartleby pretty much cover it. It has to do with the purpose or aim or the object of an intention.

That definition in Cambridge (for = to get) gets us nowhere, you know. get itself has more than 50 definitions in some dictionaries. Do you want to separate the meanings of for into those 50-plus meanings? Or do you want to say that for has only one meaning because Cambridge lists it that way?

TakaDo you still think it's different in kind?

Yes. Personally, I do. Even if all those usages mean "to get", they don't all strike me as the same "to get". You have to stretch the meaning of "get" quite a bit to say that

inspect for defects = inspect to get defects.

The basic problem you present here is how to get a digital answer from a phenomenon that is essentially analog. For example, suppose you present several pieces of fabric. You ask, are they all the same color? One person says no, one is a pinkish red, another is somewhat coral, another is a rose red, another is blood red, another is a brick red. The next person says yes, they are all red. There is no right answer, because different people perceive color (and word meaning) differently. Some separate subtle differences; some lump differences into larger categories. Not even the best dictionary in the world can find that optimal division of word meanings that satisfies everybody, so that it is fallacious, in my opinion, to think that every use of a given word will fall clearly under a single definition given in some arbitrarily chosen dictionary. It is logically impossible even to say how many definitions some words have!

CJ

Taka · Answer

CalifJimThe basic problem you present here is how to get a digital answer from a phenomenon that is essentially analog.

I know exactly what you mean, Jim. The reason I couldn't pinpoint what kind it was was simply that it was in gray area. I knew it.

I was just wondering which definition, if anything, it might fit in; 'inspection in search for something' or 'inspection with purpose of something'.

It seems that you think it might imply the purpose. OK. I see.

Thanks, Jim!

CalifJim · Answer

Tangentially, let me observe that some verbs accompanied by a for phrase typically take an object before the for phrase and some don't. When no object intervenes, I tend to hear the noun after for as a kind of object, hearing the for as part of the verb in some way -- a "prepositional verb". That's probably why I sense more than one kind of for when judging pairs like wait for and inspect (something) for.

Usually with no object: hunt, listen, long, look, shop, snoop, wait, yearn

Often with object (though the object may be dropped for many of these if it is understood from the context): canvass, check, dredge, examine, explore, feel, frisk, inspect, investigate, observe, ransack, rummage, scan, scrutinize, search, sniff, stalk, study, survey, watch

listen for signs of life / *listen the heart for signs of life

long for relief / *long something for relief
wait for the bus / *wait something for the bus

check the document for accuracy / check for accuracy
explore the cave for gold / explore for gold
frisk the suspect for hidden weapons / ?frisk for hidden weapons

CJ

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