finite/non-finite verbs

Question

I understand what finite/non-finite verbs are.I'd like to know why someone started using these names in the first place.Any idea?

Avangi · Accepted Answer

JungKimAny idea?

I wasn't there at the time, but "finite" things in general are limited by certain boundaries, while infinite things (non-finite) are not.
With verbs, we usually think about "tense" ( time ) as making the difference -- non-finite verbs don't have it, and therefore are infinite with respect to time.
But finite verbs also have other limits/specifications/restrictions which non-finite verbs do not have. Eg, person and number -- and mood.

A.

CalifJim · Answer

JungKimI understand what finite/non-finite verbs are.

You do? I'd like to hear what you think they are. Which of these are finite and which are non-finite?

go, see, find, reveal, direct, introduce, thank.

CJ

Grammarfreak · Answer

JungKimI understand what finite/non-finite verbs are.

Based on earlier discussions (about "be killed"), I would be a little more careful making such a claim if were you. Avangi pretty much said it all. In a nutshell, (saying it another way), non-finite clause can be used in past, present and future contexts because its existence bares no inflection of time. .
1) I saw a few teenagers trying to break in a neighbor's house yesterday
2) I see teenagers trying to break in neighbors' house all the time.
3) If I see teenagers trying to break in my house, I will have a face to face talk with them.

In the above, "trying to break in" is just one typical example of non-finite clause which has no inflection of tense and mood. It could be the "ed" participle , or the "ing" variety. The tense inflection is in the finite verb used in a context.

[1] She practices piano every day (finite clause -- present tense verb)
[2] She practiced piano yesterday (finite clause -- past tense verb)

Anymore questions?

JungKim · Answer

CalifJimYou do? I'd like to hear what you think they are. Which of these are finite and which are non-finite?go, see, find, reveal, direct, introduce, thank.

The finite/non-finite dichotomy is only meaningful when you have the sentence incorporating the specific verb.
All the verbs you showed -- even in their bare infinitive forms -- can be part of either finite or non-finite clauses.

JungKim · Answer

grammarfreakBased on earlier discussions (about "be killed"), I would be a little more careful making such a claim if were you.

As far as I can remember, not in our earlier discussion about "be killed" have you convincingly rebutted or rejected any of my explanations as to the finite/non-finite distinction. Please let me know if I missed any of your points back then.
And I am 100% crystal clear about the distinction. It just seems to me that the terminologies are not so well formed enough to facilitate their distinction.

CalifJim · Answer

JungKimThe finite/non-finite dichotomy is only meaningful when you have the sentence incorporating the specific verb.All the verbs you showed -- even in their bare infinitive forms -- can be part of either finite or non-finite clauses.

Right. I was teasing you about your use of "finite and non-finite verbs".

It's not the verb that is finite or non-finite; it's the clause (based on the use of the verb as well, of course).

In other words the terms 'finite' and 'non-finite' help us to classify clauses; they don't classify verbs.

CJ

Grammarfreak · Answer

JungKimAs far as I can remember, not in our earlier discussion about "be killed" have you convincingly rebutted or rejected any of my explanations as to the finite/non-finite distinction.

JungKimI am 100% crystal clear about the distinction.

Jung Kim,
If you are 100% sure about the distinction between FINITE and NON-FINITE clauses, the earlier discussion wouldn't have taken placed, would it? Ok, very simply put; you'd posted the question, I tried to explain it, not to convince you. Now that we realized that you already have a very clear understanding, we shall terminate this topic, at least on my part.

JungKim · Answer

grammarfreakIf you are 100% sure about the distinction between FINITE and NON-FINITE clauses, the earlier discussion wouldn't have taken placed, would it? Ok, very simply put; you'd posted the question, I tried to explain it, not to convince you. Now that we realized that you already have a very clear understanding, we shall terminate this topic, at least on my part.

Grammarfreak, I did not intend to offend you or anything. I am here to learn from you guys, not to argue with you guys. Nonetheless, I'd like to make this clear.

When I said you did not convince me otherwise, I was referring not to the "be killed" construction issue but to your original finite/non-finite distinction, where you said that "my friends be killed" is not a non-finite clause, which argument of yours I tried to rebut with a fairly lengthy response with a wikipedia link, which rebuttal of mine you did not respond to. Hence, I said "not in our earlier discussion about "be killed" have you convincingly rebutted or rejected any of my explanations as to the finite/non-finite distinction." But I shall add that your responses on other topics were very helpful and convincing.

Perhaps more importantly, knowing the finite/non-finite distinction cold does not automatically help solve the original question of my earlier "be killed" thread. The reason is that, as I mentioned earlier in that thread, a bare infinitive can be part of a non-finite clause as well as a finite clause. Accordingly, even though I was not confused about the finite/non-finite distinction at all, the earlier discussion about "be killed" was indispensable and helpful to me and I would like you and others to continue to weigh in with your valuable opinions as native speakers of English.

Grammarfreak · Answer

I am not a teacher nor am I a grammarian, just someone who loves English. The way I explain grammar is based on the academic approach, and how the language is used without the linguistic finesse. But the examples I used in the previous threads namely focused on your question: " I can't watch my friend be killed" pretty much covered my views on non-finite clauses. So I won't comment further.

JungKima bare infinitive can be part of a non-finite clause as well as a finite clause.

I don't disagree with this point. But, with this particular question in discussion, "be killed", as I said, is not a non-finite clause; no way, no how.

finite/non-finite verbs

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