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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
Father different twist
I started a new thread, because my question is not quite the same as what is under discussion in the "Father & the GVS".
Reading an American novel yesterday: a woman discussing her Indian boyfriend says "His name's Ram. R-A-M, but you say it like 'bomb'."
Before I started in these newsgroups, I wouldn't have understood that, but I now realise that Americans will often use an 'o' to indicate a sound that, to us non-Americans, seems closer to 'a', so I started thinking about the letters 'a, o, u'.
I found it hard to find contrasting words - I wanted 'cart, cot, cut', but of course this would make no sense to rhotic speakers, so I chose 'balm, bomb, bum'.
It seems to me that many American speakers equate 'o' with something like (a) or (æ (ligature ae)), but to me it sounds more like (V/@). So my question is, what exactly is the difference between the Standard American pronunciations of 'bomb' and 'bum'? Is it just vowel length?
Rob Bannister
Reading an American novel yesterday: a woman discussing her Indian boyfriend says "His name's Ram. R-A-M, but you say it like 'bomb'."
Before I started in these newsgroups, I wouldn't have understood that, but I now realise that Americans will often use an 'o' to indicate a sound that, to us non-Americans, seems closer to 'a', so I started thinking about the letters 'a, o, u'.
I found it hard to find contrasting words - I wanted 'cart, cot, cut', but of course this would make no sense to rhotic speakers, so I chose 'balm, bomb, bum'.
It seems to me that many American speakers equate 'o' with something like (a) or (æ (ligature ae)), but to me it sounds more like (V/@). So my question is, what exactly is the difference between the Standard American pronunciations of 'bomb' and 'bum'? Is it just vowel length?
Rob Bannister
Top answer
[nq:1]It seems to me that many American speakers equate 'o' with something like (a) or (æ (ligature ae)),[/nq] There's an ASCII symbol for that: . Most Americans don't equate "o" with (a) or especially ; the latter is the most extreme form of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift - an accent found in and around such places as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo - and the former is not far off. The most usual American "o" is something closer to (A) - a low back unrounded vowel.
- [nq:1]It seems to me that many American speakers equate 'o' with something like (a) or (æ (ligature ae)),[/nq] There's an ASCII symbol for that: .
- Most Americans don't equate "o" with (a) or especially ; the latter is the most extreme form of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift - an accent found in and around such places as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo - and the former is not far off.
- The most usual American "o" is something closer to (A) - a low back unrounded vowel.
- This is the same as the most usual American "ah" (contrast the usual Australian "ah", which is I believe a front/central (a)).
- [nq:1]but to me it sounds more like (V/@).
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47 Answers
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[nq:1]It seems to me that many American speakers equate 'o' with something like (a) or (æ (ligature ae)),[/nq]
There's an ASCII symbol for that:
There's an ASCII symbol for that:
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[nq:1]In general in almost all American dialects short u as in "***" is significantly higher than short o as in "balm". In standard or neutral-sounding dialects, short u is usually fronter than short o, though in the Northern Cities region, it's back.[/nq]
Where does NYC fit? CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent. With the volume low enough to obliterate the pe
Where does NYC fit? CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent. With the volume low enough to obliterate the pe
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[nq:2]In general in almost all American dialects short u as ... short o, though in the Northern Cities region, it's back.[/nq]
[nq:1]Where does NYC fit?[/nq]
Hello!
[nq:1]CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent.[/nq]
Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if it's specifically "New York City", though it would not shock me to learn that she w
[nq:1]Where does NYC fit?[/nq]
Hello!
[nq:1]CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent.[/nq]
Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if it's specifically "New York City", though it would not shock me to learn that she w
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(Dr. Love:)
[nq:2]CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent.[/nq]
[nq:1]Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if it's specifically "New York City", though it would not shock ... either. Could always be one of those broadcaster idiosyncracies. I can't find any Googleable information about where Bartiromo was born/raised.[/nq]
An article I found s
[nq:2]CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent.[/nq]
[nq:1]Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if it's specifically "New York City", though it would not shock ... either. Could always be one of those broadcaster idiosyncracies. I can't find any Googleable information about where Bartiromo was born/raised.[/nq]
An article I found s
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[nq:2]In general in almost all American dialects short u as ... short o, though in the Northern Cities region, it's back.[/nq]
[nq:1]Where does NYC fit? CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent. With the volume low ... and (f), it's almost impossible to tell whether she's saying the market is up 100 points or off 100 points.[/nq]
Well, there's two issues here.
[nq:1]Where does NYC fit? CNBC's announcer Maria Bartiromo has some sort of New York City accent. With the volume low ... and (f), it's almost impossible to tell whether she's saying the market is up 100 points or off 100 points.[/nq]
Well, there's two issues here.
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[nq:1]I started a new thread, because my question is not quite the same as what is under discussion in the ... a sound that, to us non-Americans, seems closer to 'a', so I started thinking about the letters 'a, o, u'.[/nq]
Ever seen the movie 'The Truth about Cats and Dogs'? Jeanne Garafolo's character makes fun of an English guy's pronunciation of 'dog'. She pronounces it in a Joanna Lumley k
Ever seen the movie 'The Truth about Cats and Dogs'? Jeanne Garafolo's character makes fun of an English guy's pronunciation of 'dog'. She pronounces it in a Joanna Lumley k
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[nq:1]Ever seen the movie 'The Truth about Cats and Dogs'? Jeanne Garafolo's character makes fun of an English guy's pronunciation of 'dog'.[/nq]
Oy! You're perpetuating an error begun by Coop a week or two ago. Her name is "Janeane" (pronounced like "Janine"), not "Jeanne". Hey, I didn't name her. (Also, it's "Garofalo".)
I saw The Truth About Cats and Dogs on an airplane once, but withou
Oy! You're perpetuating an error begun by Coop a week or two ago. Her name is "Janeane" (pronounced like "Janine"), not "Jeanne". Hey, I didn't name her. (Also, it's "Garofalo".)
I saw The Truth About Cats and Dogs on an airplane once, but withou
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[nq:2]Ever seen the movie 'The Truth about Cats and Dogs'? Jeanne Garafolo's character makes fun of an English guy's pronunciation of 'dog'.[/nq]
[nq:1]Oy! You're perpetuating an error begun by Coop a week or two ago. Her name is "Janeane" (pronounced like "Janine")[/nq]
I've been in error, too, then. I have always read the name as "Janeanne" and pronounced it as "Jane-ann". No-one has cor
[nq:1]Oy! You're perpetuating an error begun by Coop a week or two ago. Her name is "Janeane" (pronounced like "Janine")[/nq]
I've been in error, too, then. I have always read the name as "Janeanne" and pronounced it as "Jane-ann". No-one has cor
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[nq:1]One, New York short u is higher than short o, though apparently not much fronter or backer than it. But, two, "off" doesn't have short o in New York; it has the long vowel of "caught" and "law" and so forth.[/nq]
As I hear it, her vowel in is close to mine in , but it's her that differs noticeably: I hear it as being close to the vowel in my . She probably hears a difference between th
As I hear it, her vowel in is close to mine in , but it's her that differs noticeably: I hear it as being close to the vowel in my . She probably hears a difference between th
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[nq:1](Dr. Love:)[/nq]
[nq:2]Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if ... grow up in the vicinity of (the) Hoover Dam (NTTAWWT).[/nq]
[nq:2]Bartiromo's accent isn't New York Postwar Prestige Standard(TM), but it's ... can't find any Googleable information about where Bartiromo was born/raised.[/nq]
[nq:1]An article I found says she grew up near her father's restaurant ("The
[nq:2]Hmm. I'm familiar with her speech... I don't know if ... grow up in the vicinity of (the) Hoover Dam (NTTAWWT).[/nq]
[nq:2]Bartiromo's accent isn't New York Postwar Prestige Standard(TM), but it's ... can't find any Googleable information about where Bartiromo was born/raised.[/nq]
[nq:1]An article I found says she grew up near her father's restaurant ("The
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