Extraposition

Question

Hi,Here is part of the conversations I heard while watching a video clip about Kim Kardashian's divorce.She's been texting with her ex-boyfriend lately.  And insiders tell us that Chris caught her doing that.  We also know from reports that she had a secret lunch on Octobor 29th in New York with Reggie Bush.  That prenup might have some holes in it if it comes to light that she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back.I have a few questions.Q1) Is the underliend the extraposition version of the following?That she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back.(I'll call this "basic version")Q2) Can you use the basic version instead of the exraposition one?Q3) If both the basic version and the extrapositon version can be used for the underlined, what prompts one to use one over the other?  Is it because the "that-clause" is relatively "heavier" than the rest of the sentence? Q4) As far as I know, both versions are acceptable, if a content clause represents old information.A: He didn't return in his term paper until a week after the deadline.B: It's a miracle that he did it at all.(O)C: That he did it at all is a miracle.(O)So, in that respect, the sole reason for using the extraposition version in the original example was that the "that-clause" was longer content-wise.  Correct?I'd really appreciate your help.

Jooney · Accepted Answer

Could someone help me on this?

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Here is part of the conversations I heard while watching a video clip about Kim Kardashian's divorce.

She's been texting with her ex-boyfriend lately. And insiders tell us that Chris caught her doing that. We also know from reports that she had a secret lunch on Octobor 29th in New York with Reggie Bush. That prenup might have some holes in it if it comes to light that she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back.

I have a few questions.

Q1) Is the underliend the extraposition version of the following?

That she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back.(I'll call this "basic version")

No, it would be

. . . if (the fact ) that she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back comes to light.

With 'if', it doesn't sound good to me without adding 'the fact . . . ' as I have.

Q2) Can you use the basic version instead of the exraposition one? Yes. But you can sometimes end up with a very unnatural sentence.

Q3) If both the basic version and the extrapositon version can be used for the underlined, what prompts one to use one over the other? Is it because the "that-clause" is relatively "heavier" than the rest of the sentence? Partly.

By 'heavier', do you mean 'longer'?

One consideration is that with 'your' way, the speaker or writer has to plan the sentence more before beginning to say or to write it.

Another consideration is which part of the sentence you want to emphasize.

Q4) As far as I know, both versions are acceptable, if a content clause represents old information. I'd need to think about this. It doesn't sound right to me.

A: He didn't return in his term paper until a week after the deadline.

B: It's a miracle that he did it at all.(O)

C: That he did it at all is a miracle.(O)

What do you call 'old information' here?

So, in that respect, the sole reason for using the extraposition version in the original example was that the "that-clause" was longer content-wise. Correct? See my two considerations above.

Clive

Jooney · Answer

Thank you for your answers, Clive.

It appears that it is "if" that makes the basic version inadmissible. What if the basic version were used without "if"? Could it be interchangeably used with the basic version? For example,

A: It came to light that she was cheating on Chris behind his back.(O)

B: That she was cheating on Chris behind his back came to light.(?)

And as for Q #4, I forgot to underline the part that represents old information.

A: He didn't turn in his term paper until a week after the deadline.

B: It's a miracle that he did it at all.

Here is what my grammar book has to say about the "old information":

"The underlined content clause represents old information: His completion of a term paper has been explicitly evoked in the prior discourse."

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyQ1) Is the underliend the extraposition version of the following?
That she was actually cheating on Chris behind his back.(I'll call this "basic version")

Roughly, yes. You left out 'comes to light'.

jooneyQ2) Can you use the basic version instead of the ~~exraposition~~ extraposed one?

No.

jooneyQ3) If both the basic version and the extrapositon version can be used for the underlined, what prompts one to use one over the other? Is it because the "that-clause" is relatively "heavier" than the rest of the sentence?

Heaviness can be a factor, but I think the if is more important here.

jooneyQ4) As far as I know, both versions are acceptable, if a content clause represents old information.

That may be so, but I don't think the information in any if-clause can be considered old information, can it?

jooneythe sole reason for using the extraposition version in the original example was that the "that-clause" was longer content-wise. Correct?

No. I'd say that it's one reason, but I don't think it's the sole reason, as explained above.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you CJ for your reply.

As I said in my reply to Clive, I too think the "if" is the decisive factor in not allowing the extraposition version.

I'd like to ask you a question about your answer to question #1.

A1) Is the underliend the extraposition version of the following? Roughly, yes.

Could you explain why you wrote "roughly" here?

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyCould you explain why you wrote "roughly" here?

Just because you didn't use all the words originally underlined in your explanation. It's a minor point.

What you called the 'basic version' should have been

That she was cheating on Chris behind his back came to light.

which is how you presented it in a later post.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Oh, I see.  Thank you very much Clive and CJ for the help.  This forum is like a last resort to me.  I study English on my own and there aren't really many people whom I can turn to here in Korea.  I appreciate your help very much.

Extraposition

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