even if + will?

Question

Hi,I'm confused. After "if", "will" is not used. How about after "even if"? Don't try to run away, you can't escape. I will find you in any case, even if you'll hide in the middle of a tropical forest. &lt;--- I'd take it away.Don't think about it now, even if you'll have to think about it tomorrow or sometime soon. &lt;--- I'd say it's ok here.Thanks

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Your intuition is working.

But you can drop the will in the second sentence if you want.

Generally, even if works the same as if with regard to will.

Even the following, related to your second example, isn't bad:

If you'll have to think about it tomorrow, then don't bother to think about it now.

I think the contrast between two different times (present, future) when the same activity

might occur is influencing the situation and creating an exception to the rule of "nowill after if". I don't think the word even is what's causing the difference.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

Yeah,
on second thought that was a stupid question. I understand perfectly. I guess I shouldn't have had such doubts... but when I opened this thread, I probably felt like having weird doubts.

Thanks a lot.

MrPedantic · Answer

KooyeenDon't think about it now, even if you'll have to think about it tomorrow or sometime soon. <--- I'd say it's ok here.

I'd agree with all parties. "Even if" sounds concessive to me here, and very close to "even though", "even accepting the fact that".

In BrE at least, you can also use "will" after "if" where there's a sense of "be willing to", e.g.

1. If you'll just hold on to its collar for a moment, I'll get the muzzle.

2. If you'll just sign here, I'll get your key.

(I'm not sure why ESL examples always have to involve keys.)

MrP

Marius Hancu · Answer

MrPedanticIn BrE at least, you can also use "will" after "if" where there's a sense of "be willing to", e.g.
1. If you'll just hold on to its collar for a moment, I'll get the muzzle.
2. If you'll just sign here, I'll get your key.

This seems to work in AmE too:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9502E6DE1530F936A35752C1A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

... so much so that in fifth grade an exasperated teacher cut him a deal: you won't have to sign out the books if you'll just stop reading during class. ...

CalifJim · Answer

I can confirm that. will is used in American English when attempting to elicit cooperation from the listener. I think that's why it's so common with the subject you (and with the adverb just -- to minimize the difficulty of complying). It seems to me that this use of will occurs less often with other subjects, hardly ever with I or we.

I'm lukewarm on the idea that it has a very direct connection with willingness, though I accept it as an approximation. I don't think the speaker is really very concerned about whether the listener is willing or not. I think that even if loses a lot of its meaning in these quasi-imperative formulas.

If you'll just sign here, I'll get your key.

To me this is rather like

Please sign here while I get your key.

CJ

Re: keys

-- because key is one of the first words we learn in another language. It's a small, but useful, object. It's a small, but useful, word. And it's very easy to pronounce. And it's a great direct object with gobs of verbs. You can put, take, throw, forget, carry, see, look at, ask for, send, use, find, drop, ... (ad infinitum), a key.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

Marius Hancu · Answer

>and with the adverb just -- to minimize the difficulty of complying

Great obs, CJ

MrPedantic · Answer

Marius Hancu>and with the adverb just -- to minimize the difficulty of complying

Great obs, CJ

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