Estuary English

Question

Hi!

I'd like to know whether you have heard of Estuary English, and would you describe it?
is it an accent you would like to have?

please do tell me whatever you feel to say about this accent.

Cheers

T.

Chris · Accepted Answer

Hi T, welcome to the forums.

I hope you don't mind too much but I've moved your thred to the 'pronunciation' section as I think it's more relevent here.

'Estuary English' is an accent found in and around London and to my knowledge is spreading quite rapidly further south. As far as I know, purists aren't too keen at the way this accent seems to be spreading as many claim that Estuary English is 'lazy' and rather 'common'.

My opinion... accents are beautiful! Estuary English, not one of my favourites accents however a lot of respect for this new fad.

Frentch · Answer

Thanks Chris.

i connected as a "guest" before 'cause i didnt have my password yet

Thanks for your remarks!

you're right i should have put it in the pronunciation section.

i'm actually a french student (hence my pseudo!lol) writing a thesis on this accent/dialect (nobody seems to agree on its status!!) It is a very difficult subject to tackle!! espc because of its being a new concept : just 20y old! compared to RP or Cockney that's nothing! And i'm lacking some empirical datas on the perception of EE (Estuary English)... but as i have only a year to write a 100p on this subject i dont have much time to even consider making a study on the ground

i'd like to know whether people regard it as an accent or as a wave of innovating variables spreading from London... in which case Th-fronting (the substitution of Th > V/F, thence : "Muvver" or "baf" for mother and bath) should be considered as part of EE....

Who do you consider as talking typical EE? Jamies oliver? Will Young?? Jonathan Ross??

Chris you talk of EE as "a new Fad". i think you're right in a sense (according my readings

) but as a fad it shouldnt last, should it? besides, linguists say that EE is not a new phenmenon in the sens that it has been around for 500ys! But the coiner of the name "EE" has given the impression that we are dealing with a new variety of accent, which is not really true as there has alwways been an accent between RP and Cockney in the South East of England but hadnt have a name....

in my opinion, we should have called it Near-RP, and therefore there wouldnt have been so much fuss of it in the media (lol, that's only my point of view!)

But if anybody wants to give their impression on Estuary English, please do!

Cheers (cheers: here's another supposedly EE feature!so are wetalking of dialect.......????)

Chris · Answer

Hi Frentch,

Very interesting post!

For a moment I thought you were a French student (Frenchman/woman) and I was thinking why on earth would you write a thesis on EE? Even so, you've got you work cut out on this topic.

Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said 'fad' as I believe that EE will last contrary to popular (linguist) opinion.

Who do I consider as talking typical EE? Out of the three you mentioned, I'd go for Jonathan Ross!

Sorted!

Chis

Frentch · Answer

re-hi Chris

thanx for ur comments

I guess there is no difference between French student / French Student!

Actually i AM French

isn't the right time?? with the centinary of "entente cordiale"?? and a Queen in Paris!! lol

This is partly why i cannot work on the ground! and desperately need "feelings over this accent/dialect (in short this "variety" of english!)

i suppose there was a catch in my question

. the 3 persons are actually describe as talking typical EE by "real" linguists. isn't weird? they dont even have the same accent!!!??? this is why some linguists call EE as a ragbag betw RP and Cockney. which is a shame... if a south-east speaker is not RP nor COckney, then he/she is an EE speaker....

Cheers

F.

Chris · Answer

1. I'm a French student.... (I am French)
2. I'm a French student.... (I'm not French but studying the language)

Exactly the same, I just chose the wrong option. I thought you were 2 when you are actually 1!

Anyway, seeing that you are 1, may I first of all congratulate you on your level of English and secondly enqire as to why you chose this topic for your thesis? It is an interesting topic and as you siad, not easy to tackle due to the fact that you don't exactly have maximum exposure to the accent.

Frentch · Answer

thanx for you comments Chris!

i think, correct me if i'm wrong, that there's a slight change of intonation betw the two??
i suppose we should differentiate likewise : a student of french / a french student ??

(but then again, the 2nd one can mean both...... well in french we dont have that issue : un étudiant de français (1st one) and un étudiant français (2nd one). just the genetive DE that makes the whole difference..... but that's enough of french....

Well, the thing is that i have made a first thesis on Received Pronunciation last year. and i thought natural to continue on EE as some say it'll become the NEW RP.... but phonetically speaking, how tiring this subject is!! nobody seems to agree on anything!!!!!!! as some linguists have said, EE is just a Ragbag!!

"you don't exactly have maximum exposure to the accent." u're right, but internet is quite useful in some way, but that's not really "serious" for some of my teachers....

F.

Chris · Answer

You're right about that, I would rephrase the second one:

'I'm studying French' rather than I'm a French student.

Anyway, best of luck with your thesis and if I can be of any assistance just post something here!

Au revoir.

Jack-in-the-box · Answer

Hello. I'm sorry for not reading your message before; but I hope I'm still in time.
About "estuary English", you can find a lot at the following address:

http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/index.html

But you probably knew it already.
If you want my opinion, I can see no good reasons for not considering the (nowadays) "received pronunciation" as the standard English pronunciation. It seems to me that most of those who defend "estuary English" do that more for sociological than for linguistical reasons. But I don't want to bore you.

I'm Italian, and I do like France and the French language and literature, and French history and all that is French. France is our hope, and you French are our good cousins.

J'aime infiniement la langue française. Comme le latin, le grec, et l'italien aussi, elle est classique: elle parle à la tête et au coeur, elle est d'une beauté suprême!
"La langue française est une femme. Et cette femme est si belle, si fière, si modeste, si hardie, si touchante, si voluptueuse, si chaste, si noble, si familière, si folle, si sage, qu'on l'aime de toute son âme, et qu'on n'est jamais tenté de lui être infidèle" (Anatole France).
La France est notre espoir: ce monde ne nous plaît pas! Vive la France!
Pardonne mon français de cuisine. Mais je veux apprendre!

Lunantishee · Answer

hi

i am italian and i'm doing a thesis on RP and Estuary English, too.
i'm beginning it just know so i'm not so well prepared about it . i'd like to
find sth'g about the cultural background about estuary english as a mirror
of the linguistic change.... i'm speaking about movies, soaps like eastenders,
plays etc

i wish someone could help me

bye
alessia

Nona the brit · Answer

I live in the area (groan...) and I'm catching elements of EE.

It is so called because it is the prevalent accent around the Thames Estuary, from roughly the Thames barrier down to Southend on Sea.

I guess it is a mixture of cockney and general south London accents, with a little bit of the original Essex accent (which was a rural area once - you can still hear the original Essex 'country' accent in the north of the county sometimes).

It is considered a rather 'common' way of speaking. Funnily enough, although my parents were both working class Londoners, they brought their children up to avoid the strongest elements of the accents. And my son doesn't speak in the same way as most of his peers even though we are firmly working class - we are snobs I suppose, but I think it an ugly accent, and it tends to make you sound rather dim.

It's hard to describe an accent. There are patterns to the speech though, and it is quite ungrammatical at times, for example:
Using the word 'yorn' for yours (I think a contraction of 'your one').
Using yous for plural you.
Using 'we was' they was' 'you was' instead of were. (also we wasn't etc)

Estuary English

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