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Usenet Posted 21 years ago
Usage
"er" pronounced "ar"
16th century poetry seems to indicate that early modern English speakers would often pronounce the combination "er" as a modern "ar" - in the Midlands and South at least and regardless of whether the area was in the Danelaw. (Derby is in the Danelaw, Berkshire is not).
So, for example, "certain" would have been pronounced "sart'n", "merchant" as "march'nt" and so on.
In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such as "Derby", "Berkeley", "Berkshire" "(Deborah) Kerr", but has been lost in other words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.
US English now only has "sergeant" but Americans, as we know, now pronounce the proper names as they are spelt.
Some surnames have adopted a more phonetic spelling "Marchant, Sargeant, Barclay".
Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?
JPG
So, for example, "certain" would have been pronounced "sart'n", "merchant" as "march'nt" and so on.
In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such as "Derby", "Berkeley", "Berkshire" "(Deborah) Kerr", but has been lost in other words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.
US English now only has "sergeant" but Americans, as we know, now pronounce the proper names as they are spelt.
Some surnames have adopted a more phonetic spelling "Marchant, Sargeant, Barclay".
Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?
JPG
Top answer
[/nq] "Clerk" is another. Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example. Odysseus
- [/nq] "Clerk" is another.
- Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example.
- Odysseus
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18 Answers
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[nq:1]In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such as "Derby", "Berkeley", "Berkshire" "(Deborah) Kerr", but has been lost in other words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.[/nq]
"Clerk" is another.
Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example.
Odysseus
"Clerk" is another.
Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example.
Odysseus
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[nq:1][/nq]
[nq:2]In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such ... words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Clerk" is another. Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example.[/nq]
Hard of cows?
Of course, I've hard of cows.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
sa
[nq:2]In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such ... words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Clerk" is another. Both pronunciations are also found for various words in "ear": "heard" vs "heart", for example.[/nq]
Hard of cows?
Of course, I've hard of cows.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
sa
00
[nq:1][/nq]
[nq:2]In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such ... words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Clerk" is another.[/nq]
And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?
Phil C.
[nq:2]In British English, this pronunciation persists in proper nouns such ... words apart from "sergeant" and possibly others I can't remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Clerk" is another.[/nq]
And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?
Phil C.
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Phil C. had it:
[nq:2] "Clerk" is another.[/nq]
[nq:1]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
Which often causes confusion when talking of Hartford, Cheshire, pronounced "Hartford".
David
==
replace usenet with the
[nq:2] "Clerk" is another.[/nq]
[nq:1]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
Which often causes confusion when talking of Hartford, Cheshire, pronounced "Hartford".
David
==
replace usenet with the
00
[nq:2] "Clerk" is another.[/nq]
[nq:1]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
In the UK we also have a River Cherwell, pronounced Charwell.
In OE, parson was spelled "person".
JPG
[nq:1]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
In the UK we also have a River Cherwell, pronounced Charwell.
In OE, parson was spelled "person".
JPG
00
[nq:1]Phil C. had it:[/nq]
[nq:2]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
[nq:1]Which often causes confusion when talking of Hartford, Cheshire, pronounced "Hartford".[/nq]
Hertford College Oxford was once called Hart Hall. Which proves something or other. There's also a Hart
[nq:2]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
[nq:1]Which often causes confusion when talking of Hartford, Cheshire, pronounced "Hartford".[/nq]
Hertford College Oxford was once called Hart Hall. Which proves something or other. There's also a Hart
00
[nq:2]And Hertford. (pronounced Hartford - or Harford if you're posh). Perhaps the pronunciations derived from one dialect and the spelling from another?[/nq]
[nq:1]In the UK we also have a River Cherwell, pronounced Charwell. In OE, parson was spelled "person". JPG[/nq]
I'm pretty sure I've heard "certain sure" (extremely sure) pronounced "sartin sure" in the American South West and I'll
[nq:1]In the UK we also have a River Cherwell, pronounced Charwell. In OE, parson was spelled "person". JPG[/nq]
I'm pretty sure I've heard "certain sure" (extremely sure) pronounced "sartin sure" in the American South West and I'll
00
[nq:1]16th century poetry seems to indicate that early modern English speakers would often pronounce the combination "er" as a modern "ar" -[/nq]
[nq:1]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have address
[nq:1]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have address
00
[nq:2]16th century poetry seems to indicate that early modern English speakers would often pronounce the combination "er" as a modern "ar" -[/nq]
[nq:2]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers andwriters may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
[nq:1]There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have ad
[nq:2]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers andwriters may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
[nq:1]There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have ad
00
[nq:2]16th century poetry seems to indicate that early modern English speakers would often pronounce the combination "er" as a modern "ar" -[/nq]
[nq:2]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
[nq:1]There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have a
[nq:2]Does anyone have any idea why the early modern English speakers and writers may have used such an illogical pronunciation and/or spelling?[/nq]
[nq:1]There have been perhaps a dozen responses to the original post as I write, and none have a
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