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Usenet Posted 20 years ago
Usage
English IPA transcription of "er" vs "rer"
Hello,
I had to come up with an IPA transcription for the word "furor" today (leaving the second syllable unstressed, without an "oh" sound), and I'm a bit confused as to what it should be. After all, the "-or" is clearly the alveolar approximant (upside down "r" in IPA), but what about the preceding "r"? It doesn't make any sense to write "fjurr" with two r's.
It made me think: if you take the sound "er" (as in "Er, I don't know") you can put an "r" in front of it to make "rer". There is clearly an extra sound here at the front, but the result isn't just an elongated "rrr", to me there are two distinct sounds, but I don't know what the first one would be called. It seems like a labialized r, followed by a non-labialized one. Can anyone help me understand this? Is there a separate IPA symbol for this preceding r? I can't seem to find much mention of it anywhere.
Much thanks,
Michael
I had to come up with an IPA transcription for the word "furor" today (leaving the second syllable unstressed, without an "oh" sound), and I'm a bit confused as to what it should be. After all, the "-or" is clearly the alveolar approximant (upside down "r" in IPA), but what about the preceding "r"? It doesn't make any sense to write "fjurr" with two r's.
It made me think: if you take the sound "er" (as in "Er, I don't know") you can put an "r" in front of it to make "rer". There is clearly an extra sound here at the front, but the result isn't just an elongated "rrr", to me there are two distinct sounds, but I don't know what the first one would be called. It seems like a labialized r, followed by a non-labialized one. Can anyone help me understand this? Is there a separate IPA symbol for this preceding r? I can't seem to find much mention of it anywhere.
Much thanks,
Michael
Top answer
[nq:1]It made me think: if you take the sound "er" (as in "Er, I don't know") you can put an ... Is there a separate IPA symbol for this preceding r? [/nq] In my idiolect, /r/ in an onset is realized with rounding (IPA superscript w), while /r/ in a nucleus or coda is unrounded (or at least less rounded).
- [nq:1]It made me think: if you take the sound "er" (as in "Er, I don't know") you can put an ...
- Is there a separate IPA symbol for this preceding r?
- [/nq] In my idiolect, /r/ in an onset is realized with rounding (IPA superscript w), while /r/ in a nucleus or coda is unrounded (or at least less rounded).
- So it sounds like something similar may be going on with you.
- Nuclear /r/ is of course syllabic, so it would have the syllabicity mark (vertical stroke under the symbol) in a narrow transcription.
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31 Answers
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[nq:1]It made me think: if you take the sound "er" (as in "Er, I don't know") you can put an ... Is there a separate IPA symbol for this preceding r? I can't seem to find much mention of it anywhere.[/nq]
In my idiolect, /r/ in an onset is realized with rounding (IPA superscript w), while /r/ in a nucleus or coda is unrounded (or at least less rounded). So it sounds like something similar may
In my idiolect, /r/ in an onset is realized with rounding (IPA superscript w), while /r/ in a nucleus or coda is unrounded (or at least less rounded). So it sounds like something similar may
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[nq:1]Hello, I had to come up with an IPA transcription for the word "furor" today (leaving the second syllable unstressed, ... "r" in IPA), but what about the preceding "r"? It doesn't make any sense to write "fjurr" with two r's.[/nq]
You've run into the reason that a lot of non-Americans say Pres. Bush talks about "tairists". And I do too, or pretty close. You should hear me on "rural" or "
You've run into the reason that a lot of non-Americans say Pres. Bush talks about "tairists". And I do too, or pretty close. You should hear me on "rural" or "
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[nq:2]Hello, I had to come up with an IPA transcription ... doesn't make any sense to write "fjurr" with two r's.[/nq]
[nq:1]You've run into the reason that a lot of non-Americans say Pres. Bush talks about "tairists". And I do too, ... and then bring it back. (That is, my jaw goes high-low-high.) Sorry, I don't know whether there's IPA for that.[/nq]
I had a student from Baltimore once wh
[nq:1]You've run into the reason that a lot of non-Americans say Pres. Bush talks about "tairists". And I do too, ... and then bring it back. (That is, my jaw goes high-low-high.) Sorry, I don't know whether there's IPA for that.[/nq]
I had a student from Baltimore once wh
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[nq:1]Hello, I had to come up with an IPA transcription for the word "furor" today (leaving the second syllable unstressed, without an "oh" sound), and I'm a bit confused as to what it should be.[/nq]
The Oxford version os SAMPA for furor is /"fjU@rO;/, IPA (UTF-8)/'fjÊ?É?rÉ?Ë/,
ASCII-IPA /'fjU@rO:/
Jones uses
for BrE (ASCII-IPA) /'fjUrO:/
IPA (UTF-8) /'fjÊ?rÉ?Ë/
for AmE
The Oxford version os SAMPA for furor is /"fjU@rO;/, IPA (UTF-8)/'fjÊ?É?rÉ?Ë/,
ASCII-IPA /'fjU@rO:/
Jones uses
for BrE (ASCII-IPA) /'fjUrO:/
IPA (UTF-8) /'fjÊ?rÉ?Ë/
for AmE
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[nq:2]You've run into the reason that a lot of non-Americans ... high-low-high.) Sorry, I don't know whether there's IPA for that.[/nq]
[nq:1]I had a student from Baltimore once who said "murderer" in a way that sounded like "murder" to me. Until ... mean there is more involved in "murder" than putting an "-er" on "murder." I must say I'm a bit dismayed.[/nq]
Hey, Bart!
I can tell that
[nq:1]I had a student from Baltimore once who said "murderer" in a way that sounded like "murder" to me. Until ... mean there is more involved in "murder" than putting an "-er" on "murder." I must say I'm a bit dismayed.[/nq]
Hey, Bart!
I can tell that
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"Mispronunciation", "standard pronunciations" interesting concepts.
Mike Wright
http://www.raccoonbend.com
Mike Wright
http://www.raccoonbend.com
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[nq:2]The Oxford version os SAMPA for furor is /"fjU@rO;/, IPA ... that error, you would not be tempted to write "rr".[/nq]
[nq:1]"Mispronunciation", "standard pronunciations" interesting concepts.[/nq]
What about standard spelling? I have only ever seen "furore".
Rob Bannister
[nq:1]"Mispronunciation", "standard pronunciations" interesting concepts.[/nq]
What about standard spelling? I have only ever seen "furore".
Rob Bannister
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Thanks all, "murderer" is perhaps a better example to use because "furor" does have multiple pronunciations. I guess the answer is that there's no easy answer, which is OK but quite interesting.
Cheers
Michael
Cheers
Michael
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[nq:1]I had a student from Baltimore once who said "murderer" in a way that sounded like "murder" to me. Until ... same sort of relaxation and re-exertion (probably not the proper phonetics term) that made "ye" /yIy/ and "woo" /wUw/ possible,[/nq]
The word mirror is even worse. In my idiolect, so far as I can tell, there are four successive "r"s. The first one is differentiated by belonging to
The word mirror is even worse. In my idiolect, so far as I can tell, there are four successive "r"s. The first one is differentiated by belonging to
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[nq:1]What about standard spelling? I have only ever seen "furore".[/nq]
Are you in Italy? looks very foreign.
Are you in Italy? looks very foreign.
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