English comma

Question

(Warning: From Denmark)Is the comma placed correct:"Either all data gets stored in the same directory as the program, or else data for each user account has its own directory (availability of this option depends on the operating system). "?As I see it: There are 2 independent clauses.. Separated by a "FANBOYS" word...But only if you ignore the "else". Am I to consider the "or" = "or else" in this context?One could also argue that I am in a sense listing 2 different choices, but I guess the comma is still correct since both sentences are indenpendent clauses (if you ignore the "else")?best regardsThomas Schulz

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Is the comma placed correct: " Either all data gets stored in the same directory as the program, or else ... word... But only if you ignore the "else". Am I to consider the "or" = "or else" in this context?[/nq]
I think your comma is fine (although not strictly necessary it helps to mark the end of the first clause), because the conjunction "or" is quite capable of linking the two halves of the sentence. But "else" seems somewhat redundant to me: "Either ... or ..." is perfectly idiomatic, and on encountering the "Either" a reader will be alerted to look for an "or" introducing the alternative case.

Sorry, I don't get your reference to "FANBOYS".

Odysseus

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1](Warning: From Denmark) Is the comma placed correct: "Either all data gets stored in the same directory as the program, ... choices, but I guess the comma is still correct since both sentences are indenpendent clauses (if you ignore the "else")?[/nq]
The construction "or else", despite being common, is redundant: a simple "or" or "else" will do the needed work. For some reason unknown to me, a simple, bare "else" now strikes people as a strange form.
Here, the simple "or" will conjoin the two alternatives:

Either all data gets stored in the same directory as the program or data for each user account has its own directory (the availability of this option depends on the operating system).
I don't think the comma is needed, or even wanted, when an explicit "either" has opened the comparison: "either A, or B" is not normal usage.
And I think you want a "the" before "availability", at least if the context is fairly formal, as it seems to be. (Whether you want to add, for utmost clarity, "in use" or "chosen" at the end of the parenthetical remark is up to you.)

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

Thanks fo your input!
[nq:1]Sorry, I don't get your reference to "FANBOYS".[/nq]
Following list of words: "For,And,Nor,But,Or,Yet,So".
best regards
Thomas

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The construction "or else", despite being common, is redundant: a simple "or" or "else" will do the needed work. For some reason unknown to me, a simple, bare "else" now strikes people as a strange form.[/nq]
Well, AFAIK, "else" isn't enough in itself to separate
2 independent clauses (or so I've read a few places).Still, just using "else" does not seem oddly to me. What I've read has probably used a too "strict" set of "rules".
[nq:1]I don't think the comma is needed, or even wanted, when an explicit "either" has opened the comparison: "either A, or B" is not normal usage.[/nq]
I've read that there must always be a comma if an "or" separates 2 independent clauses. What if there hadn't been an explicit "either" (thereby giving the first clause its own readable meaning)? Then the comma would be required, true?
[nq:1]want to add, for utmost clarity, "in use" or "chosen" at the[/nq]
Good idea. Thanks.
best regards
Thomas

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The construction "or else", despite being common, is redundant: a ... simple, bare "else" now strikes people as a strange form.[/nq]
It's a good idea to include attributions, dk (if I may use your first name). This looked to me like a quotation from Eric Walker, and a check of the references confirmed that. You have to understand that Eric's views of English usage frequently differ from those of most other native speakers of the language. This, I venture to say, is one such instance.
[nq:1]Well, AFAIK, "else" isn't enough in itself to separate 2 independent clauses (or so I've read a few places). Still, just using "else" does not seem oddly to me. What I've read has probably used a too "strict" set of "rules".[/nq]
I can't explain the grammar succinctly, but the usage of "else" all by itself in such contexts isn't wrong, just very old-fashioned. (Eric seems to like old-fashioned usages.) I would recommend avoiding it because it is old-fashioned. At least some readers would be momentarily distracted by it. Effective communication is best accomplished by using prose that does not distract readers.
[nq:2]I don't think the comma is needed, or even wanted, ... the comparison: "either A, or B" is not normal usage.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've read that there must always be a comma if an "or" separates 2 independent clauses.[/nq]
I follow that rule almost invariably. You should be aware that many people do now omit a comma before "or" and other coordinating conjunctions even when they join two independent clauses. I oppose this practice, because it can easily lead to confusion. As far as I am concerned, using this sort of comma is not old-fashioned in any way; it is the best practice in such situations.
As you have noticed, Eric is talking specifically about a sentence in which the first independent clause is preceded by "Either" and the second by "or." Omitting the comma before "or" in such a sentence is quite common, particularly when the two clauses are short: "Either I am not making myself clear or you are not paying attention." This is one exception to the more general rule. There is nothing wrong with inserting the comma before "or" in such a sentence, but, to repeat, you can safely omit it.
[nq:1]What if there hadn't been an explicit "either" (thereby giving the first clause its own readable meaning)? Then the comma would be required, true?[/nq]
Yes.

Bob Lieblich
Either I'm right or I'm not

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Either I'm right or I'm not[/nq]
Hehe, thanks Robert.
I am going to save this whole thread on my disk.
best regards
Thomas

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Either I'm right or I'm not[/nq]
[nq:1]Hehe, thanks Robert. I am going to save this whole thread on my disk. best regards Thomas[/nq]
Just in case one opinion disagreeing with Eric isn't enough, I think Robert is right on all counts.
Carter Jefferson
http://carterj.homestead.com/

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