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Usenet Posted 21 years ago
English in UK
English and French: peace, not war?
Good evening,
I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that I am likely to make no end of mistakes; on the other hand, I have the gall to post to a uk. newsgroup while I'm not even British; and on the third hand (how freaky), I'll be speaking about a subject which I gather is far from being a hot topic here. Should you however bear with me, here it is:
I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise, a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with this interesting difference that a significant number of its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war" between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in this "war". Someone addressed me recently, writing:
"You never answer when I ask you why we shouldn't be pleased when /la francophonie/ progresses, or grieve when it retreats, or get annoyed by elusive reactions."
My answer was:
"I am a win-win fan. I cannot be pleased by a progress if it means a retreat by someone else. But as far as languages are concerned, it is possible, and that's the point, to have progress /everywhere/. Nothing forbids /anyone/ from speaking several languages, save laziness and inertia, sometimes also, alas! xenophobia and/or contempt. And nothing forbids both French and English to progress together, and even to take advantage of their synergies to back each other up. But if we stick to concepts of struggle, hereditary enemy, and I-win- only-if-you-lose, then success won't be there."
Upon which it was suggested that I submit my subversive ideas to an English-speaking newsgroup, just to see how they would react. I took up the challenge, and here I am, hoping I'm not too much of an intruder.
Thank you for your kind attention and maybe for your feedback. You are also welcome if you wish to direct me to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa. linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).
Pierre Hallet (Brussels)
I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that I am likely to make no end of mistakes; on the other hand, I have the gall to post to a uk. newsgroup while I'm not even British; and on the third hand (how freaky), I'll be speaking about a subject which I gather is far from being a hot topic here. Should you however bear with me, here it is:
I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise, a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with this interesting difference that a significant number of its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war" between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in this "war". Someone addressed me recently, writing:
"You never answer when I ask you why we shouldn't be pleased when /la francophonie/ progresses, or grieve when it retreats, or get annoyed by elusive reactions."
My answer was:
"I am a win-win fan. I cannot be pleased by a progress if it means a retreat by someone else. But as far as languages are concerned, it is possible, and that's the point, to have progress /everywhere/. Nothing forbids /anyone/ from speaking several languages, save laziness and inertia, sometimes also, alas! xenophobia and/or contempt. And nothing forbids both French and English to progress together, and even to take advantage of their synergies to back each other up. But if we stick to concepts of struggle, hereditary enemy, and I-win- only-if-you-lose, then success won't be there."
Upon which it was suggested that I submit my subversive ideas to an English-speaking newsgroup, just to see how they would react. I took up the challenge, and here I am, hoping I'm not too much of an intruder.
Thank you for your kind attention and maybe for your feedback. You are also welcome if you wish to direct me to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa. linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).
Pierre Hallet (Brussels)
Top answer
[nq:1]Good evening, I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that ... wish to direct me to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa. linguas, maybe?
- [nq:1]Good evening, I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that ...
- wish to direct me to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa.
- linguas, maybe?
- [/nq] Welcome to this newsgroup.
- You are not intruding.
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104 Answers
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[nq:1]Good evening, I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that ... wish to direct me to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa. linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).[/nq]
Welcome to this newsgroup. You are not intruding.
I am just about to switch off my computer and go to bed, so I will make the brief comment that your a
Welcome to this newsgroup. You are not intruding.
I am just about to switch off my computer and go to bed, so I will make the brief comment that your a
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[nq:1]Good evening, I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English is not my mother tongue, so that ... to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa. linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first). Pierre Hallet (Brussels)[/nq]
Hi, first of all, let me remark, that your english is not bad at all. The contrary actually.
I don't have a specific answer, in reality I even b
Hi, first of all, let me remark, that your english is not bad at all. The contrary actually.
I don't have a specific answer, in reality I even b
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At 19:05:53 on Fri, 20 May 2005, Sas (Email Removed) wrote in :
[nq:1]And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too much), but since english has become a lingua franca, most of the english speaking people don't have to bother to learn any foreign language.[/nq]
This is regrettably more and more often the case these days. When I was at school, we started to learn French at the age of 7
[nq:1]And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too much), but since english has become a lingua franca, most of the english speaking people don't have to bother to learn any foreign language.[/nq]
This is regrettably more and more often the case these days. When I was at school, we started to learn French at the age of 7
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Molly Mockford:
[nq:1]Sas:[/nq]
[nq:2]And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke ... people don't have to bother to learn any foreign language.[/nq]
The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned English at school and it was useful to my later career (I'm working in computers), but it went beyond being just "useful". Thu
[nq:1]Sas:[/nq]
[nq:2]And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke ... people don't have to bother to learn any foreign language.[/nq]
The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned English at school and it was useful to my later career (I'm working in computers), but it went beyond being just "useful". Thu
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[nq:1]Molly Mockford:[/nq]
[nq:2]Sas:[/nq]
[nq:1]The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned ... fun, because I marvelled over the music of the words. But this must no doubt exist in the other direction...[/nq]
I think learning more than one language is a profound thing to do. Yeah, me and computers like yourself, too. Th
[nq:2]Sas:[/nq]
[nq:1]The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned ... fun, because I marvelled over the music of the words. But this must no doubt exist in the other direction...[/nq]
I think learning more than one language is a profound thing to do. Yeah, me and computers like yourself, too. Th
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"Erick Andrews"
[nq:1](To put a finer point on it, my Dutch friend years ago used to tell me, 'to possess another language is to possess another soul'. He spoke 7 languages very well ...I forget who he was quoting).[/nq]
Charlemagne.
[nq:1](To put a finer point on it, my Dutch friend years ago used to tell me, 'to possess another language is to possess another soul'. He spoke 7 languages very well ...I forget who he was quoting).[/nq]
Charlemagne.
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Erick Andrews :
[nq:2]"Mes chers amis, quand je mourrai Plantez un saule au ... will weigh lightly On the soil where I'll be sleeping.")[/nq]
[nq:1]Nice. May I send it to my dear friend in Antibes (British; language teacher) for comment?[/nq]
The author won't object: he died in 1857.
.
Pierre Hallet
[nq:2]"Mes chers amis, quand je mourrai Plantez un saule au ... will weigh lightly On the soil where I'll be sleeping.")[/nq]
[nq:1]Nice. May I send it to my dear friend in Antibes (British; language teacher) for comment?[/nq]
The author won't object: he died in 1857.
.
Pierre Hallet
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[nq:1]My sweetie and I go to Canada once in a while. In Québec they will say 'une bicyclette au gas', when in France we're more apt to hear 'un moto-bike'![/nq]
I've never heard that. Usually one says 'une moto', the short form of 'motocyclette'.
I've never heard that. Usually one says 'une moto', the short form of 'motocyclette'.
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At 22:04:17 on Fri, 20 May 2005, Pierre Hallet (Email Removed) wrote in (Email Removed):
[nq:1]Molly Mockford:[/nq]
[nq:2]We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in ... all the words, accurately, and be able to translate them.[/nq]
[nq:1]Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long did it last?[/nq]
For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous
[nq:1]Molly Mockford:[/nq]
[nq:2]We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in ... all the words, accurately, and be able to translate them.[/nq]
[nq:1]Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long did it last?[/nq]
For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous
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[nq:2]Molly Mockford: Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long did it last?[/nq]
[nq:1]For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous les garcons et les filles de mon age" was a ... to move on to the likes of Jacques Brel - more grown-up, much more difficult, but thoroughly worth the effort!)[/nq]
I too remember this time as I lived in England then. I always
[nq:1]For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous les garcons et les filles de mon age" was a ... to move on to the likes of Jacques Brel - more grown-up, much more difficult, but thoroughly worth the effort!)[/nq]
I too remember this time as I lived in England then. I always
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