Ellipsis

Question

There was an animal several days dead in the boxThe sentence above is the ellipsis of which below? Or are the two sentences equally possible?There was an animal which had been several days dead in the boxThere was an animal which was several days dead in the box.

Vsuresh · Accepted Answer

Neither of them sounds fine.
I would say "There was an animal lying dead in a box for several days."

GPY · Answer

vsureshNeither of them sounds fine.I would say "There was an animal lying dead in a box for several days."

However, that does not mean quite the same thing. The original is stating the existence of and describing the condition of the animal at that moment, not describing an action occurring over a period of time (except by implication).

Taka · Answer

And which do you think is the unabbreviated version of it, GPY?

Clive · Answer

several days dead does not sound very natural to my ear.

Clive

GPY · Answer

TakaAnd which do you think is the unabbreviated version of it, GPY?

Meaning-wise it seems closer to the second one, on the basis that "several days dead" in the original describes the present state ("present" as of the relevant time), not a state that persisted over time. This distinction would normally be very pedantic, but in this case it seems to be the relevant one.

Taka · Answer

GPY Meaning-wise it seems closer to the second one, on the basis that "several days dead" in the original describes the present state ("present" as of the relevant time), not a state that persisted over time. This distinction would normally be very pedantic, but in this case it seems to be the relevant one.

It's several days since the animal died.?The animal has been dead for several days.

If the animal is in the box now, then it's:

There is an animal which has been dead for several days.

And if is a past event, according to the rule of sequence of tenses, it should be:

There was an animal which had been dead for several days.

So, isn't it the first one?

GPY · Answer

I interpret "an animal which had been several days dead" (your first option) as a less usual way of saying "an animal which had been dead for several days". This is a correct and valid thing to say, as you explain.

However, in the original phrase "an animal several days dead", "several days dead" is a state that exists at the end of the several days, not throughout the several days. Therefore it doesn't make sense to say it "had been" in that state throughout that period of time. This is why the interpretation of "several days dead" has to slightly shift when put into the phrase "had been several days dead". However, in the phrase "was several days dead" it can retain its original meaning. This is why I favour the second option.

At the end of the day, these are saying pretty much exactly the same thing, and this kind of hair-splitting would not normally be necessary.

Vsuresh · Answer

GPYThe original is stating the existence of and describing the condition of the animal at that moment,......

I think that if something is dead it has certainly existed.

GPY · Answer

vsuresh GPYThe original is stating the existence of and describing the condition of the animal at that moment,......I think that if something is dead it has certainly existed.

Stating the existence of the animal in the box in its present state.

Vsuresh · Answer

Hi GPY
Thanks for your reply.
May be, I have not understood.

I was looking at the original sentence.

Does the sentence mean the animal was shut in the box, which is referred to as being 'dead'?

Ellipsis

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