Ellipsis

Question

"You asked that your customers write you concerning feedback, so I am."
Is there a problem with this, since the explicit verb is "write" and the omitted verb is "writING"?
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 17 years

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]"You asked that your customers write you concerning feedback, so I am." Is there a problem with this, since the explicit verb is "write" and the omitted verb is "writING"?[/nq]
There is, to my ears. I would have make it "... so I am writing" or something similar.
"write you" is insupportable to my ears, English as they be, but that doesn't affect my point.

David
==

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"You asked that your customers write you concerning feedback, so I am." Is there a problem with this, since the explicit verb is "write" and the omitted verb is "writING"?[/nq]
Yes.
Ellipsis is proper only when the words the reader or listener will supply are (as close as humanly possible to) certain to be the words omitted. Ellipsis normally relies very heavily on parallelism as the cue for the words to supply; when the wanted elided words are not parallel to those actually in evidence, the device has been misused.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"You asked that your customers write you concerning feedback, so ... explicit verb is "write" and the omitted verb is "writING"?[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes. Ellipsis is proper only when the words the reader or listener will supply are (as close as humanly possible ... to supply; when the wanted elided words are not parallel to those actually in evidence, the device has been misused.[/nq]
Thanks to both of you. I've been known to misuse devices in the past, but not in the future.
In this case, well...
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 17 years

Usenet · Answer

(Email Removed) said that "Eric
[nq:2]Ellipsis is proper only when the words the reader or ... as humanly possible to) certain to be the words omitted.[/nq]
I don't think that's at all true. I've often used ellipsis when the words omitted were not relevant to the thought I wanted to pass on by quoting someone else's remarks.

An example might be a quotation of the following passage:

A young man in the audience who was standing in the back row so that I couldn't see clearly whether he was blond or brunet said "I think this measure should be soundly defeated."
It would be entirely proper to quote that as follows:

A young man in the audience ... said "I think
this measure should be soundly defeated."
Nothing is lost by the elision. The reader is expected to trust the writer's judgement that the elided words are not important so far as the point under discussion goes. The reader has no way to guess, or any need to guess, what they are.
A more practical example, because it typifies a style I've often used, is the quotation of a specific definition from a dictionary, where that definition is the only one that's relevant to the subject under discussion:
Main Entry:irony

Function:noun

3 a(1) : incongruity between the actual result of a
sequence of events and the normal or expected
result
(2) : an event or result marked by such
incongruity
The first ellipsis has to do with the pronunciation of the word.
The second ellipsis omits information about inflected forms, etymology, and the first two definitions given for "irony".

None of the omitted material is relevant to the specific definition of "irony" that I want to cite, and there's no need for the reader to know, or to want to know, what information is being omitted.
(I've enclosed the ellipsis marks in square brackets to show that they are my interpolations, not part of the text that's being quoted.)

Usenet · Answer

(examples elided)
We are not speaking of the same thing. "Ellipsis" as I use it is as it is defined in my desk dictionary: "The omission of a word or words necessary for complete grammatical construction but understood in the context." What you are referring to I would call "elision" ("elide: to leave out; suppress, omit or ignore"). I reckon a good part of the confusion derives from the fact that the traditional three-dot pattern signifying both forms of omission is usually called "ellipses".
Bernstein, in The Careful Writer , remarks "Ellipsis in grammar permits the omission of a word in part of a sentence if it can be supplied or understood from a neighboring part of the sentence", though I reckon that can be extended to a verb-plus- modal combination or likely some simple phrase as well as to a single word.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I've often used ellipsis when the words omitted were not relevant to the thought I wanted to pass on by quoting someone else's remarks.[/nq]
[nq:1](examples elided) We are not speaking of the same thing. "Ellipsis" as I use it is as it is defined ... the confusion derives from the fact that the traditional three-dot pattern signifying both forms of omission is usually called "ellipses".[/nq]
You've left room for me to do a bit of nitpicking: I was taught that the three-dot pattern is to be regarded as a single punctuation mark called an ellipsis; more than one such punctuation mark would be called ellipses. For example, The Oxford Style Manual (Oxford University Press,
2003) says "In punctuation, an ellipsis is a series ofpoints signalling an omission". On the other hand, The Chicago Manual of Style 14th Edition doesn't appear to say anything about an ellipsis being a punctuation mark consisting of three periods. It calls that item of punctuation "ellipsis points".
Anyway, you've educated me, and I thank you. I think I now know the difference between ellipsis and elision.
Incidentally, it seems the OSM could in principle have used the two different meanings of "ellipsis" to say "In punctuation, an ellipsis is a series of points signalling an ellipsis". I think they were wise not to do so.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I reckon a good part of the confusion derives from ... pattern signifying both forms of omission is usually called "ellipses".[/nq]
[nq:1]You've left room for me to do a bit of nitpicking: I was taught that the three-dot pattern is to ... ellipsis being a punctuation mark consisting of three periods. It calls that item of punctuation "ellipsis points". . . .[/nq]
I had not given much thought to the matter before, rarely having to refer to the things. Checking a couple of other manuals, it appears that the terminology is a bit fluid, but apparently "ellipsis point" or "ellipsis dot" is the name for one, though the terms are meaningless unless the dots/points come as a set of three despite which there appears to be no set name for the collection of three as a unit other than "ellipsis points/dots", which seems peculiar, to say the least. ( The Oxford Style Manual , which I do possess a copy of, appears to be the only one that names the set as a whole.)

More germane, ellipsis as opposed to elision does not normally use any mark:
I will come in and sup with him, and he with me.
The earth belongs to the living, not the dead.
Those are elliptical for (more or less):
I will come in and sup with him, and he (will come in and sup) with me.
The earth belongs to the living, (but the earth does) not (belong to) the dead.
As I remarked earlier, parallelism is normally the engine that powers acceptable ellipsis.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"write you" is insupportable to my ears, English as they be, but that doesn't affect my point.[/nq]
is that really correct english? I see\hear it a lot, mainly from Americans and others who dont speak english as their first language. I cant say I have ever heard it said by a british person.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"write you" is insupportable to my ears, English as they be, but that doesn't affect my point.[/nq]
[nq:1]is that really correct english? I see\hear it a lot, mainly from Americans and others who dont speak english as their first language. I cant say I have ever heard it said by a british person.[/nq]
It's not used now in Britain we say "write to you" instead. But it is possible to find "write" used transitively in older British literature, just as "phone", "fax" and "e-mail" are used nowadays. I don't think "speak" was ever used thus.
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]is that really correct english? I see\hear it a lot, ... I have ever heard it said by a british person.[/nq]
[nq:1]It's not used now in Britain we say "write to you" instead. But it is possible to find "write" used transitively in older British literature, just as "phone", "fax" and "e-mail" are used nowadays. I don't think "speak" was ever used thus.[/nq]
Are "write you a note," "write me a letter" and similar phrases no longer current in BrE?

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