Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old.

Question

Hello.Is the sentence below correct?Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old.Especially I am asking about:- Should we add 'the' before 'Egyptian mummies'?- What is the difference between 'thousands of years old' and 'thousands years old'?

Fivejedjon · Accepted Answer

Do not use 'the' in that sentence.

'Thousands years old' is not correct.

Reegis · Answer

fivejedjonDo not use 'the' in that sentence.

Could you explain why? I am trying to understand this...
For example here:

I asked about the sentence: The burial rites of ancient Egiptians were very complex.
What makes the difference between these two sentences that in the first we say "Egyptian mummies" (without 'the) while in the second we say "The burial rites" (with 'the')? I would really like to at least start feeling the difference between them.

fivejedjon'Thousands years old' is not correct.

So please confirm - do we say "This is 5 years old" but "This is thousands of years old"?
Or maybe we can also say "This is 5 of years old" (it sounds rather awkward)?

CalifJim · Answer

ReegisEgyptian mummies are thousands of years old. ... Should we add 'the' before 'Egyptian mummies'?

No. "the" could be used for making contrasts, however, as between two kinds of mummies already mentioned in the preceding text.

... Egyptian mummies ... ... ... Bolivian mummies ... ...
The Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old, whereas the Bolivian mummies are only hundreds of years old.

Nevertheless, 'the' is not required.

Reegisdifference between 'thousands of years old' and 'thousands years old'?

It's [hundreds / thousands / millions / ...] of (years old), but [a hundred / a thousand / a million / ...] (years old).

In other words, there's no "of" with an exact number.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

ReegisThe burial rites of ancient Egyptians were very complex.

It seems to me that a noun always takes 'the' when it is followed by a possessive of-phrase.

I'm sure someone will come up with the 527 exceptions before long.

CJ

Reegis · Answer

So, to avoid speaking about exceptions, would you agree with the following rules of thumb about our sentences:

CalifJim... Egyptian mummies ... ... ... Bolivian mummies ... ...

1. Without 'the' because it is first mention.

CalifJimThe Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old, whereas the Bolivian mummies are only hundreds of years old.

2. With 'the' because it is second mention (and we know what mummies we are talking about).

CalifJimIt seems to me that a noun always takes 'the' when it is followed by a possessive of-phrase.

3. With 'the' because it is later mention (so this possessive of-phrase makes our noun identified by information after it).

Do you think it makes sense?

CalifJimIt's [hundreds / thousands / millions / ...] of (years old), but [a hundred / a thousand / a million / ...] (years old).In other words, there's no "of" with an exact number.

Crystal clear - thanks!

CalifJim · Answer

Reegis2. With 'the' because it is second mention (and we know what mummies we are talking about).

Yes, and to focus on a contrast, as between the Xs and theYs.

Reegis3. With 'the' because it is later mention (so this possessive of-phrase makes our noun identified by information after it).

I wouldn't call it "later mention". I find that a bit confusing. I'd say "With 'the' because it's followed by a possessive of-phrase".

Nevertheless, please keep in mind that this was my spur-of-the-moment guess about the reason for 'the' in the construction "the burial rites of (the) ancient Egyptians". I haven't seen it written up like this in any grammar book. Many of your questions don't have answers that are found in grammar books. In fact, they may even be topics that are still not completely resolved in linguistics circles. It's hard to turn intuition into mathematical formulas.

ReegisDo you think it makes sense?

Yes, with the caution I've advised above.

CJ

Reegis · Answer

CalifJimYes, and to focus on a contrast, as between the Xs and theYs.

I see, thanks.

CalifJimI wouldn't call it "later mention". I find that a bit confusing. I'd say "With 'the' because it's followed by a possessive of-phrase".

I used this name because of the two reasons:
- This term was used here http://www.grammar-quizzes.com/article3c.html, so I am not sure if this usage in this context is adequate, but I thought it is an established term.
- To my mind it just goes well with 'first mention' and 'second mention' and is easier to remember this way.

CalifJim I haven't seen it written up like this in any grammar book.

Hmmm, but do both sentences sound natural to you or you would rephrase them?

CalifJimMany of your questions don't have answers that are found in grammar books. In fact, they may even be topics that are still not completely resolved in linguistics circles.

This is interesting... very interesting... Fortunately you don't seem to be shy of thinking creatively and unconventionally

Then I hope that you find my questions enjoyable and as a refreshing change

CalifJim · Answer

ReegisThis term was used here http://www.grammar-quizzes.com/article3c.html , so I am not sure if this usage in this context is adequate, but I thought it is an established term.

It's not an established term, but if it's easier for you to remember it, then OK. At least now I know in greater detail what you mean by that term.

ReegisCalifJim I haven't seen it written up like this in any grammar book.Hmmm, but do both sentences sound natural to you or you would rephrase them?

We've seen a lot of sentences in this thread, and you haven't quoted exactly which two sentences you're referring to, so I'm hesitant to answer unless you clarify by quoting those sentences.

ReegisFortunately you don't seem to be shy of thinking creatively and unconventionally

One does what one can.

CJ

Reegis · Answer

CalifJimWe've seen a lot of sentences in this thread, and you haven't quoted exactly which two sentences you're referring to, so I'm hesitant to answer unless you clarify by quoting those sentences.

Sorry, I meant these:

Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old.
The burial rites of the ancient Egyptians were very complex.

Btw. could you please also say which of the sentences below is correct?
1) An article on the new Michael Jackson scandal was published yesterday.
2)The article on the new Michael Jackson scandal was published yesterday.
It is intended as first mention and I wonder if "on the..." could be interpreted as later mention, thus justify 'the' before 'article'.

CalifJim · Answer

ReegisEgyptian mummies are thousands of years old. The burial rites of the ancient Egyptians were very complex.

Both of those sound natural. I see no problems.

Reegisintended as first mention
... wonder if "on the..." could be interpreted as later mention ...

1) An article on the new Michael Jackson scandal was published yesterday.
2)The article on the new Michael Jackson scandal was published yesterday.

As a first mention only 1) will do. Somebody has to know already which article you're talking about if you want 2). For example, two journalists at the publishing company might have been working on that article before it was published. If asked what the status of the article was, one might then answer the other by saying 2).

In brief, the on-phrase doesn't count as "later mention".

CJ

Egyptian mummies are thousands of years old.

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