early&late

Question

"Da Vinci drew plans which looked like an early helicopter"

"Da Vinci drew plans that resembled later helicopters."

I am an English teacher in Turkey and in one of our ELS magazines there was a question like this. We were wanted to find the sentence that has the closest meaning to the given one "..............an early helicopter." And the correct answer was".......resembled later helicopters"

I couldn't understand how "......an early helicopter" and "......later helicopters" could have the same meaning.I asked the editors but wasn't satisfied with their answers.

They informed me that "..........later helicopter" meant " the time in which helicopters began to be produced." They say that it means"future/ulterior".

Yes but how can "later helicopters" be the same as "an early helicopter" ?I mean "early" means "simple/the ones that were produced first" but if "later helicopters" means "future helicopters" , then doesn't it mean "the ones produced in the future"?

If so,how do we know WHICH helicopters in the future?the simple ones,mid-range or the modern ones?

But "an early helicopter" HAS that meaning doesn't it? the ones that were SIMPLE / FIRST PRODUCED / NOT MODERN...

In ".....later helicopters" yes we know they are in the future but which ones in the future?

As native speakers,would you be so kind as to inform me on this matter?Thank you in advance....

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

In the second sentence, the writer has simply chosen to use the plural; it could have read 'resembled the later helicopter'-- 'the helicopter, a machine that appeared later in history'. The plural form carries the same meaning.

Similarly, the first sentence could equally well be recast as 'looked like early helicopters'-- 'looked like helicopters, as if they had appeared contemporaneously with Da Vinci, earlier than in reality.

Worrying about which helicopter models-- whether from 1916 or 2006-- is belaboring the point as well as beside it.

Vedat22 · Answer

Thank you very much for your explanation...

Unfortunately I couldn't get "is belaboring the point as well as beside it" but as far as your reply is regarded, "early helicopter" and "later helicopter" do have the same meaning,I mean the readers think of the same machine meant by"early helicopter" and "later helicopter" don't they? By the way plurality wasn't any problem for me.

As a non-native speaker I thought that "early helicopter" means "first produced,simple helicopters,the ones that were first made in the early 20. century; NOT the ones that were produced later,the MODERN ones"...I mean Da Vinci drew a plan for a machine that could have looked like a SIMPLE (early)or MODERN (later) heli and in our case it is the SIMPLE/early one.My question is,can't the expression "early heli" have the above stated meaning? and as such,can't "later heli" mean the ones that were later produced,after 1906,that were modern,complicated ones?But reading your answer I see that it means" like an heli as if it existed in Da Vinci's time,that is about several centuries earlier than in reality" and "later heli" meaning "the ones produced later in time".

Regarding all these, I have two questions: Does a native speaker clearly and quickly understand without thinking that these two refer to the same machine and thus have the SAME meaning?

And if early heli and later heli could refer to the type of machine I mentioned above, is it possible for this question to bear an ambiguity?(resembled first/simple helis AND resembled modern / complicated helis)

And my last question: the editors said that "later..." is an ADVERB in this case....is this correct? I think that later refers to the heli and is therefore an ADJECTIVE....

Thank you for your assistance in advance....

Mister Micawber · Answer

Hello Vedat, and thanks for registering-- Welcome to English Forums.

Da Vinci drew plans which looked like an early helicopter; Da Vinci drew plans that resembled later helicopters.

The content ('Da Vinci') of both sentences leaves no doubt in the reasonable native reader's mind, and without thinking, that the writer means the generic helicopter, primitive or modern.

In another context-- e.g. 'Early helicopters often flew in circles before crashing and burning, while later helicopters are marvels of aeronautical engineering'-- of course the reader is expected to imagine early as c. 1906-1935 and later as c. 1990-.

Context is all, and any ambiguity is the fault of the author.

Later is certainly an adjective here.

Vedat22 · Answer

I'd like to thank you for your help and explanation..

You've been of great help to me on this matter..You stated that the native speaker understands the same thing from:(originally):"Amongst other things,Leonardo da Vinci drew plans for a machine that looked like an early helicopter" and "As well as his other work, Leonardo da Vinci drew up some designs for something that resembled later helicopters." Then there isn't and can't be any further problems for me..But I see that you have understood my problem regarding I am a non-native speaker and you say that(or do I understand so?)it is possible for us to take "early heli"and "later heli" as opposites and therefore regard the "later heli" option as the wrong answer?(so do my students)

Here is another question: "......before she had finished the gallon,she started to cry." where we expect it to be:"...before she FINISHED she HAD STARTED to cry." don't we?

From sentences like "before you HAVE FINISHED your homework,you can't go out" or " untill she HAS DONE the housework,she can't leave" we understand that there is an emphasize on COMPLETION(am I right?)

Is it the same for "...before she had finished..."?

And another one: Is it possible to say both: "Having broken / breaking his leg, he couldn't come with us"

Are there situations where we cannot replace "having done..." with "doing....."?(expressing reason-cause)

Best regards....

Mister Micawber · Answer

Is it the same for "...before she had finished..."? -- Offhand, I would say yes.

Is it possible to say both: "Having broken / breaking his leg, he couldn't come with us" -- No; the second is odd-- he seems to be breaking his leg at the moment of the decision whether to come.

Are there situations where we cannot replace "having done..." with "doing....."?(expressing reason-cause) -- Probably many. but you will need to give me specific instances to judge. I have a poor imagination.

Anonymous · Answer

0Hi again...02br
02br
00"Okarie, an old man of eighty years of age, with grey hair and...........................in the way his village folks do, is sitting at the edge of the bed."02br
02br
00a)dressing b) is dressed c) being dressed d) dressed e) is dressing02br
02br
00The answer is "B)dressed" and that's easy to understand but might we not say "C) being dressed ?" I couldn't quite get why "being dressed" doesn't work here? Is "being+V3" only used when giving reasons, like:"Being dressed too formal,he felt embarassed at the party."02br
02br
00I wasn't able to clearly explain the difference between the 2 choices to my students.02br
02br
00Thank you for your help in advance...02br
02br
00Vedat Aksu....0-

CalifJim · Answer

0 When you give the choices, choice b is 01i01b00is02b00 dressed02i00. Then you say the correct answer is b 01i00dressed02i00. You are making it quite confusing trying to answer this. 05002br
00 In any case, I think this is a new topic not related to the original topic of this thread, and your best bet is to post this in corrected form as a 01u00new02u00 post, not tacked on to an old one.02br
00 Thanks!02br
02br
00 CJ010id1

Mister Micawber · Answer

0Did you forget your password, Vedat?02br
02br
00Yes, please start a new thread with an accurate version-- and you might think about 'parallel structure' in explaining to your students.0-

Marius Hancu · Answer

0 BTW: 02br
00>We01font00 were02font00 wanted to find the sentence02br
00 should be: 02br
00 We wanted to find the sentence02br
02br
00 And yes, start new threads with new questions and post in non-anonymous mode. 0-

Marius Hancu · Answer

1i00Da Vinci drew plans which looked like an early helicopter. 02br
02i02br
02br
01i00Da Vinci drew plans that resembled later helicopters.02br
02i02br
02br
00Well, 01i00early helicopters02i00 and 01i00later helicopters02i00 belong to the same class of objects, helicopters. The adjectives 01i00early 02i00and 01i00later 02i00are separating the class into several subclasses. But they are similar in belonging to the same general class of objects. 02br
02br
00Thus the editors were justified in basing their question on that general similarity, of belonging to that class. 0-

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