double relative

Question

Hi, everyone? Would like to invite your bright opinions for my 3 questions :

1) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read which is really useful. (= Double relatives)

2) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read and which is really useful. (= two relatives are parallel)

3) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read, which is really useful.

==

Q1. Does 1) mean that I was recommended to read a few guide books and only this guide book is really useful ?

Q2. Does 2) mean that I was recommended to read one guide book and same time this guide book is really useful ?

Q3. Is 2) equal to 3) ?

Thanking always & Best RGDS

GPY · Accepted Answer

Q1. Yes.

Q2. I understand (2) to mean the same as (1), but I prefer (1).

Q3. (3) is not the greatest sentence ever, in my opinion. I understand it to mean that you were only recommended one guide book, and it was useful that it was only one (e.g. because it simplifies things and gives you less to read).

Deepcosmos · Answer

GPYQ1. Yes. Q2. I understand (2) to mean the same as (1), but I prefer (1).

While I am always appreciating your replies, my understanding
Q.1, Q2 is quite different from yours this time.

Thus, I would like to invite others' various opinions.

SoSaysSunny · Answer

deepcosmos1) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read which is really useful. (= Double relatives)

deepcosmosQ1. Does 1) mean that I was recommended to read a few guide books and only this guide book is really useful ?Q2. Does 2) mean that I was recommended to read one guide book and same time this guide book is really useful ?Q3. Is 2) equal to 3) ?

The relative clauses really complicate these sentences. The answers to your questions, however, may depend on the use of which:

Which usually has a comma before it, making the phrase clearly parenthetical (added in, not crucial to the sentence).

To make a stronger point, try using that (identifies an important quality).

WHICH v. THAT Examples:

She opened the door, which was green. (the door she opened happened to be green, no hint of other doors)

She opened the door that was green. (she chose the door that was green, from more than one doors)

YOUR QUESTIONS:

deepcosmos2) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read and which is really useful.

As I understand it, your goal is to communicate a quality (really useful) that is important (the only one) so I would use that.

Unfortunately, you have already used that in this sentence. If your that points to both recommended and useful, then the which should be removed:

This is the only guide book that was recommended and ~~which~~ is really useful.

Or you could re-cast the sentence:

This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful. (is useful , it is still useful)

This is the only recommended guide book that I found useful. (found because the discovery happened in the past)

QUESTION #2:

deepcosmos2) This is the only guide book that I was recommended to read and which is really useful.

deepcosmosQ2. Does 2) mean that I was recommended to read one guide book and same time this guide book is really useful ?

If you want to say the one book happened to be useful, you should use which and it doesn't make sense to use only (a contrast from others).

Someone recommended I read (removed passive/awkward I was recommended)
this guide book, which is really useful. (moved book to end, next to which clause)

Fivejedjon · Answer

Though 'that' is probably more commonly used than 'which' in defining relative clauses in BrE, there is no difference in emphasis.

Deepcosmos · Answer

SoSaysSunnyIf you want to say the one book happened to be useful, you should use which and it doesn't make sense to use only (a contrast from others).

Many thanks for your long explanations. I will review them closely
and come back to you. Meantime, do you speak American Engilish?

SoSaysSunny · Answer

deepcosmosMany thanks for your long explanations. I will review them closely and come back to you. Meantime, do you speak American Engilish?

Thank you for your kind words.

Different students have different learning styles. For example, I have a hard time learning individual pieces of information -- I need to connect the new info to what I already know, to learn words in relation to similar/contrasting ones.

Your questions ask about the nuances of words, allowing me to think about my understanding and try to put it into words. My long explanations reflect the way I have "filed" the ideas in my mind.

Yes, I was born and raised (and continue to live) in the United States, specifically the southeastern region. My profile includes a travel map, if you're interested.

Deepcosmos · Answer

SoSaysSunnyOr you could re-cast the sentence:This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful. (is useful , it is still useful)

Now I understand roughly your long explanations with sincere thanks.

However, if I make my point clear, that is why natives sometimes use the coordinate conjunction (like 'and / but') and sometimes don't, when they join two relative clauses. As far as I undrestand, relative itself has the function of conjunction.

That is, is there any difference between following 2 sentences? ;

1) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful.
2) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read and that is really useful.

Thanking in advance,

Deepcosmos · Answer

GPYQ2. I understand (2) to mean the same as (1), but I prefer (1).

Always thanking your replies.

If I make my point clear, that is why natives sometimes use the coordinate conjunction (like 'and / but') and sometimes don't, when they join two relative clauses. As far as I undrestand, relative itself has the function of conjunction.

That is, is there any difference between following 2 sentences? ;

1) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful.
2) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read and that is really useful.

Thanking in advance,

SoSaysSunny · Answer

deepcosmoswhy natives sometimes use the coordinate conjunction (like 'and / but') and sometimes don't, when they join two relative clauses.

I can't explain why native speakers are inconsistent ... We're human?

deepcosmos1) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful.

Removing the details:

This book is the only one ... that is useful. (clear, correct)

2) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read and that is really useful.

Removing the other list items (and conjunction):

If I remove the conjunction and other list items, the sentence should still make sense:

This book is ~~(description A), (description B), and~~ (description C). (remove other items)
This book is (description C). (sentence still makes sense)

This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read and that is really useful.
This guide book is ~~the only one I was recommended to read and~~ that is really useful. (remove other item)
This guide book is that is really useful. (nonsense)

IN SUMMARY:

I think and that is only appropriate if there's another that in parallel:

I am glad that (situation A) and that (situation B).

I'm glad that you came to see me and that I was home when you got here.

EXPERTS: Is this generally true?

To answer your question (if my summary is true):

The sentences are different because the first is correct and the second is not.

GPY · Answer

deepcosmosThat is, is there any difference between following 2 sentences? ; 1) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read that is really useful. 2) This guide book is the only one I was recommended to read and that is really useful.

(1) means that you were recommended several books but only one of them is useful.

(2) is not a great sentence in my opinion. It might be understood to mean the same as (1), or it might be understood to mean that it was useful that you were recommended only one book and not several.

(The question of whether someone can be recommended to do something is a perennial favourite. Personally I'm not a huge fan, but other people accept it.)

SoSaysSunnyI think and that is only appropriate if there's another that in parallel:

I think the sentence works a bit better if the first implied "that" is inserted:

This guide book is the only one that I was recommended to read and that is really useful.

I would still remove "and", though (assuming the first meaning above is intended).

double relative

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