Don’t need to pay for

Question

Hello...How about the sentences below?How do these sound to native ears?Are all correct or some awkward?Michael Swan says c.is wrong....I'd like to know if that is true to native speakers' sense of English....****************a. You needn’t pay for that phone call.b. You don’t need to pay for that phone call.c. You needn’t pay for emergency calls in most countries.d. You don’t need to pay for emergency calls in most countries.

Clive · Accepted Answer

All OK to me.

don't need to is more common than needn't.

Also common is don't have to.

Pructus · Answer

Oh, I see... I see...

Thanks so much, Clive!!

CalifJim · Answer

pructusMichael Swan says c.is wrong.

Hmm. I wonder what subtle point he's trying to make.

To my ear they're all fine. Even so, I almost never use modal 'need', so you won't hear me saying a or c very much.

CJ

Pructus · Answer

Thanks so much, CJ~!!

Here is what Michael Swan says:

These modal forms of need normally refer to immediate necessity. They are often used to ask for or give permission - usually permission not to do something. They are not used to talk about habitual, general necessity.

a. You don’t need to pay for emergency calls in most countries.
b. *You needn’t pay for emergency calls in most countries.

*************

But I found Google results that contradict Swan's proposition, as below....

1. You need not pay FUTA taxes for services performed by your child who is under 21 years old.

2. You need not pay employment taxes on the wages you pay for household services performed by your spouse, your child under age twenty-one, or your parent (except under special circumstances).

3.
(a) A and B contract that A shall deliver goods to B to be paid for by B on delivery. Here the promises are 'mutual and concurrent' and therefore A need not deliver the goods, unless B is ready and willing to pay for the goods on delivery, and B need not pay for the goods, unless A is ready and willing to deliver them on payment.
(b) A and B contract that A shall deliver goods to B at a price to be paid by instalments, the first instalment to be paid on delivery. A need not deliver, unless B is ready and willing to pay the first instalment on delivery. B need not pay the first instalment, unless A is ready and willing to deliver the goods on payment of the first instalment.

Pructus · Answer

I found more examples that contradict Swan's theory...
It's so confusing....

*********

4. You needn't pay that fine. (Meaning and the English Verb; by Geoffrey N. Leech; 2014, p 94)

5. You mustn't / don't have to / needn't pay an entrance fee because you're under 16. (Compact First Workbook with Answers with Audio CD (Cambridge English) by Peter May ; 2013)

CalifJim · Answer

pructusThese modal forms of need normally refer to immediate necessity. They are often used to ask for or give permission - usually permission not to do something. They are not used to talk about habitual, general necessity.

Thanks, pructus, for providing all this information. I thought that's what M.S. might have meant, but I don't think people follow those guidelines very carefully. I can't say that I do. As you saw from your Google research, there are plenty of cases that contradict in practice what may be theoretically true.

CJ

Pructus · Answer

I see.... I see...

Thanks so much for the information...

That really helped and sorted out my confusion!!

Don’t need to pay for

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