Don Hidalgo

Question

If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?[/nq]
No, a gentleman by birth, not a knight. The etymology is: Spanish: "hidalgo", Old Spanish and Portuguese "fidalgo", formerly also "hijo dalgo" (plural: "hijos dalgo"), "hijo (filho) de algo", or, more clearly, .

The medieval origin of the term quite closely parallels the German "junker" from earlier "junkher", "-herr" (from the Middle High German "junc" (German: "jung") joined to "herre" (German: "herr"), a ; once cognate with the English form "younker."
A comparison not without some value is to be found in the landed gentry of some Colonial Virginia families who were descended from younger branches of landowning families in Britain. In this sense, George Washington could have been described as a "hidalgo."
A medieval Spanish knight was a "caballero"
Spanish "caballero" , originally cognate with the French "chevalier," Italian "cavaliere." The Latin original was "caballrius, caballarius" from "caballus" (for riding, a mount, as opposed to "equus" the generic animal). This line of descent also gives the English words "chivalry" and "cavalry."

Regards, Frank Young
(Email Removed) 703-527-7684 Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891 "Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?[/nq]
Los riforafos (= la gentuza).

Reinhold (Rey) Aman

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?[/nq]
It appears to depend on which century.
http://libro.uca.edu/emigrants/emigrants2.htm
by the early sixteenth century most of these minute legal distinctions had become blurred or largely
ignored in practice and probably had lost much
meaning even for contemporaries. (9) Basically what remained was a sort of three-tiered division of all those who had fiscal exemptions and other real or
honorary privileges. These three groups roughly
corresponded to the designations grandes and títulos (at the top), caballeros, and hidalgos.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?[/nq]
I think the class above the hidalgos (squiredom) was the "ricos-hombres" (magnates). These sub-classes overlapped but were eventually replaced by the titulos and grandees.
IIRC, Spanish titles ranged upward from escudero (esquire), cabellero (knight), señor (lord) and barón (baron). The first two were not necessarily noble, at least in the Middle Ages, while a hidalgo or rico-hombre might be a lord, baron or not use a title at all, but was a nobleman regardless (unlike Britain, where nobility does not inhere in the family but in the peerage title which guaranteed representation in the House of Lords until 1999; thus only one member of the family could inherit nobility at a time whereas in Spain and the rest of the Continent, all legitimate male-line descendants of a nobleman are equally noble, even though most inherit no title).

The nobleza consisting of hidalgos ("infanzones" in Aragon) and ricos-hombres was converted, as royal absolutism supplanted feudalism, into a court nobility that consisted in ascending order of:
1. (the untitled noble or) Señor
2. Barón (baron)
3. Vizconde (viscount)
4. Conde (count or earl)
5. Marqués (marquis or marquess)
6. Duque (duke)

Those who hold ranks 2-5 inclusive are the Titulos del Reino (Titled Nobles of the Kingdom). Above the Titulos are the Grandees, who are entitled to be addressed "Your Excellency". All dukes hold the grandeza, along with a decreasing percentage of marquises, counts, viscounts, barons and even a couple of Señores (e.g. Generalissimo Francisco Franco's widow was known as "la Senora de Meiras"). This system is still operable since Spain continues to have a legal nobility and to grant hereditary titles.
Above the grandees is the royal family, headed by the King. His children, and those of his eldest son, the Prince of Asturias (who announced this week plans to wed a commoner, the first such marriage in Spain in 500+ years) hold the title of Infante or Infanta and are addressed "Your Royal Highness". Infantes are also generally given a dukedom, as in the UK. But unlike the UK, the husband of a duchess takes the title of duke (as long as the marriage lasts) and females can inherit and transmit hereditary titles.
Charles Stewart

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[nq:2]If a hidalgo was a member of the lowest class of Spanish nobility, a knight, what was the other classes called?[/nq]
[nq:1]It appears to depend on which century. http://libro.uca.edu/emigrants/emigrants2.htm by the early sixteenth century most of these minute legal distinctions had ... or honorary privileges. These three groups roughly corresponded to the designations grandes and títulos (at the top), caballeros, and hidalgos.[/nq]
un hidalgo no debe a otro que a Dios y al rey nada
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]un hidalgo no debe a otro que a Dios y al rey nada[/nq]
A line from "Guantanemera"?
No, it's a line buried deep in
"Lazarillo de Tormes"
A picaresque romance (1554) of unknown authorship
Why the obscure referral? What does it mean? I know most of the words but they don't quite add up.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]un hidalgo no debe a otro que a Dios y al rey nada[/nq]
[nq:1]A line from "Guantanemera"? No, it's a line buried deep in "Lazarillo de Tormes" A picaresque romance (1554) of unknown authorship Why the obscure referral? What does it mean? I know most of the words but they don't quite add up.[/nq]
How about "An hidalgo doesn't owe anyone but ***, and he owes nothing to the king"?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A line from "Guantanemera"? No, it's a line buried deep ... most of the words but they don't quite add up.[/nq]
[nq:1]How about "An hidalgo doesn't owe anyone but ***, and he owes nothing to the king"?[/nq]
Right. And it is a bit redundant, but one forgives the addition "y al rey nada" with the understanding that this is emphasis.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Right. And it is a bit redundant, but one forgives the addition "y al rey nada" with the understanding that this is emphasis.[/nq]
Seriously? I read it as "A hidalgo owes nothing to anyone but *** and the king". "No debe a " (rather than "No debe nada a ") sounds weird to me, although my intuitions are nearly nonexistent.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >The purpose of writing is to inflate
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning,Palo Alto, CA 94304 >and inhibit clarity. With a little

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Right. And it is a bit redundant, but one forgives the addition "y al rey nada" with the understanding that this is emphasis.[/nq]
[nq:1]Seriously?[/nq]
Yes.
[nq:1]I read it as "A hidalgo owes nothing to anyone but *** and the king".[/nq]
"An hidalgo does not owe to anyone but *** and nothing to the king".
[nq:1]"No debe a " (rather than "No debe nada a ") sounds weird to me, although my intuitions are nearly nonexistent.[/nq]
Your intuition is right about modern colloquial Spanish.

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Mood conjugation:
I've been to **** and back
You've taken a wrong turn
He is a loser
(Craig Brown)

Don Hidalgo

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