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Hello,I'm going to ask you a question about grammar and give an example and the example question itself is another question for native speakers."How many words generally doesn't the average native English speaker know when reading a regular newspaper article?"Is it correct to phrase a question like that ? or should it be "How many words generally does the average native English speaker not know when reading a regular newspaper article?And don't  forget to answer the example question as well !Thanks!

Clive · Accepted Answer

I'm going to ask you a question about grammar and give an example and the example question itself is another question for native speakers.

"How many words generally doesn't the average native English speaker know when reading a regular newspaper article?"

Is it correct to phrase a question like that ? or should it be

"How many words generally does the average native English speaker not know when reading a regular newspaper article?
The first version is correct, but this second version is also correct and more common.

And don't forget to answer the example question as well !

I don't have that number. For one thing, it depends on the newspaper.
If you google, you can find articles on illiteracy, and also articles on the grade-level at which various newspapers are written.
eg
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40032569?uid=3739448&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21102045884961

MustAsk · Answer

Thanks a ton! I don't want to this thing into personal affairs, but if I rephrase the question and ask you; let's say any Yahoo article, would you understand and know every word most of the time or are there always several words you are unfamiliar with? Sorry if it's too personal, don't answer if you don't want to, this question is directed at any other voluntary native English speaker willing to answer as well.

Clive · Answer

I don't know what you mean by 'a Yahoo article'. But when I read the newspaper, I seldom encounter words that I don't know, unless they are technical or specialized terms.
Bear in mind that some readers are well-educated, and some are not.

Clive

AlpheccaStars · Answer

MustAskThanks a ton! I don't want to this thing into personal affairs, but if I rephrase the question and ask you; let's say any Yahoo article, would you understand and know every word most of the time or are there always several words you are unfamiliar with? Sorry if it's too personal, don't answer if you don't want to, this question is directed at any other voluntary native English speaker willing to answer as well.

News articles are mostly written to be understood by the average literate person. People with a higher level of education (and a larger vocabulary) very easily understand all the words. English has a huge vocabulary, and many variations.
If an article is written in a regional or social dialect, or for a technical audience, or an old form of the language then I would have to consult a dictionary.

CalifJim · Answer

MustAsklet's say any Yahoo article, would you understand and know every word most of the time or are there always several words you are unfamiliar with?

In that sort of article, I understand and know every word all the time. There are never any words I am unfamiliar with.

CJ

Blue Jay · Answer

I would not expect to encounter unfamiliar words in a typical article appearing in a newspaper or equivalent publication. While reading books and magazines I consult the dictionary frequently, but most of the time I do so to confirm or clarify my understanding of a word that is at least somewhat familiar to me. If I don't know the word at all it is likely to be either a specialized term or a word that is almost never used.
In the past couple of weeks I have read many thousands of words of text on this forum, and I can think of only three English words that I encountered here that were completely unknown to me, and whose meanings I could not have guessed based on my knowledge of related words. They were:
Orthogonal, which means "at right angles".
Vitrine, which means "glass display cabinet".
Hereditament, which means "property that can be inherited".
COCA, which contains 450 million words of text, lists 281 references to "orthogonal", of which 280 were from scientific and technical publications, and one was from NPR. There were 55 mentions of "vitrine", including three from the NY Times and one each from the Washington Post and the San Francisco Chronicle, as well as a couple from Town & Country and Harper's, mostly referring to museum displays. Most of the rest of the references to "vitrine" were from publications devoted to museums and art. There were no matches at all for "hereditament". Put another way, "vitrine" has apparently appeared a total of five times in major US newspapers in the past 22 years. "Orthogonal" and "hereditament" have not appeared at all.
I would guess that all three are so unusual that few people would be familiar with any of them, and it would be a rare person indeed who knew all three.

CalifJim · Answer

Blue JayOrthogonal, which means "at right angles".Vitrine, which means "glass display cabinet".Hereditament, which means "property that can be inherited".

Only 'hereditament' stumped me, but the meaning was obvious from context so I didn't look it up except to confirm it was not a misprint.

CJ

Blue Jay · Answer

I too grasped the sense from the context, but I don't recall seeing any of these words before, and I couldn't have attempted to define them if I had encountered them by themselves. Another new word for me was juristic, but I was familiar with jurist, and with the -ic suffix, so it wasn't hard to arrive at the meaning. Your "brassica campiensis" doesn't count, of course!

CalifJim · Answer

I think a lot of it has to do with the peculiarities of each person's path through life. I had an older aunt that used 'vitrine' now and then. And later in life I learned 'vitre', French for 'glass', so it all made sense.

As for 'orthogonal' I'm very familiar with it because I've taken a lot of math courses. It's not only 'at right angles', but can also be used to imply the independence of multiple variables that combine in causing a final effect. A friend once encountered it in reading a study in the field of medicine. He was nearly furious that people use such bizarre and unfamiliar words. The look on his face when I defined it for him on the spot!

CJ

Blue Jay · Answer

I had "vitreous" stored in a seldom visited corner of my mind, but not "vitre". I think of "verre" as the French for glass. I suppose that is the glass in which you put your wine?
There is a certain smug satisfaction felt any time someone poses a question they are convinced is unanswerable, and you are able to whip out the correct response on the spot.

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