Does the " go before or after the period.

Question

I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. However, in college, I'm noticing that's not always what is happening. Same as when I sometimes read news articles. For example:
She took her to the party, and she remembered saying, "have fun."

I've seen it as:
She took her to the party and she remembered saying, "have fun".

There are others that I can't think of examples for. I'd ask a prof., but it's summer so there's no school.
Also is grammar use different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. ... are others that I can't think of examples for. I'd ask a prof., but it's summer so there's no school.[/nq]
The practice of putting the period after the quote mark is a result of computer programming experience in my opinion. A period is a delimiter for the whole sentence and the quote mark is a delimiter for the quoted text and a programmer will instinctively put an inner delimiter before an outer delimiter. Your English professor and his ilk will stand stubbornly behind the 'proper English grammar' practice and insist on keeping it inside the quote, so if you don't want to lose marks, better stick to that in anything they are likely to see.

As for me, I'm a programmer, and it irks me to see delimiters "abused"!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. However, in college, I'm noticing that's not always what is happening. Same as when I sometimes read news articles.[/nq]
Usage varies by country. In the U.S., quotations are enclosed in double quotation marks, and the quotation marks are outside most other forms of punctuation. In the U.K., single quotation marks are used, and they are inside the punctuation.
The usage is dictated by typographic aesthetics, not by grammar.

Similarly, in monospaced fonts, it's customary to follow a period or colon with two spaces instead of one. In typeset material using proportional fonts, only one space is used.
There are many, many other little rules.
[nq:1]Also is grammar use different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?[/nq]
There are no absolute rules for commas. Some people prefer natural comma positioning, where the commas are inserted where a pause would naturally occur in speech. Others prefer to follow complex grammatical rules. I'm in the natural camp myself.

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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The practice of putting the period after the quote mark is a result of computer programming experience in my opinion.[/nq]
The practice predates computer programming.
[nq:1]Your English professor and his ilk will stand stubbornly behind the 'proper English grammar' practice and insist on keeping it inside the quote, so if you don't want to lose marks, better stick to that in anything they are likely to see.[/nq]
It has nothing to do with grammar. The punctuation is usually inside the quotation marks because it looks nicer typographically. Indeed, in typography, sometimes the quotation marks are right above the period, not on either side (something that really became possible only with computerize typesetting, since metal type provided no easy way of doing this).

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Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It has nothing to do with grammar. The punctuation is usually inside the quotation marks because it looks nicer typographically.[/nq]
Then why did Bradley's school teachers instruct him thus? Were they typographers? I remember being taught the same in high school in the 1950's, and I can't remember ever seeing a period outside a quote mark until the last decade or so. I'll take your word on English practice, but on the left side of the pond I still think it's programming influence.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Then why did Bradley's school teachers instruct him thus?[/nq]
They didn't know any better.
[nq:1]Were they typographers?[/nq]
I doubt it. Typesetting is quite a specialty and the average English teacher knows nothing about it.
[nq:1]I remember being taught the same in high school in the 1950's, and I can't remember ever seeing a period outside a quote mark until the last decade or so.[/nq]
It's entirely possible that computer use has influenced the American practice of putting punctuation inside quotation marks, but it's not the origin of the practice overall, as it was done elsewhere long before computers came along.
Even today, I'll set punctuation inside quotation marks because it looks nicer, unless I'm forced to not do so in order to avoid misunderstanding in IT contexts. Usually, if I'm setting something for IT use, I'll also make it distinctive in other ways, such as through the use of monospaced sans serif fonts (Lucida fonts are a favorite of mine for this purpose in print use).
[nq:1]I'll take your word on English practice, but on the left side of the pond I still think it's programming influence.[/nq]
The greater prevalence of it in the U.S. today is probably due to computer use, although it's not due to programming (too few people are familiar with computer programming).

Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. ... different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?[/nq]
I understand that the rules for typesetters vary between the USA and britian today. In the USA IIRC the punctuation marks after a word, pharase or sentence in quotes are included within the quotation marks. In britain IIRC this only happens if the quotation is a complete sentence. However, this may no longer be the case.

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, ... wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?[/nq]
[nq:1]I understand that the rules for typesetters vary between the USA and britian today. In the USA IIRC the punctuation ... only happens if the quotation is a complete sentence. However, this may no longer be the case. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan[/nq]
The rules I learned for the US are periods and commas alsways go inside the quotation mark, colons, semi-colons and dashes always outside, and question marks and exclamations go in or out, depending on whether or not they are part of the quotation.
As a linguist, I tend to prefer putting periods and commas outside single quotes when used for definitions.
Barbara Need
UChicago Linguistics

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I understand that the rules for typesetters vary between the ... this may no longer be the case. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan[/nq]
[nq:1]The rules I learned for the US are periods and commas alsways go inside the quotation mark, colons, semi-colons and ... the quotation. As a linguist, I tend to prefer putting periods and commas outside single quotes when used for definitions.[/nq]
If you quote a sentence, then the period goes inside, in my view. If you just quote a word in isolation, then I put the period outside. I also tend towards using single quotes for that sort of thing.

"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world?s tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street. A real opera of death, that?s what you?re going to get." -, "Fight Club"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]If you quote a sentence, then the period goes inside, in my view. If you just quote a word in isolation, then I put the period outside. I also tend towards using single quotes for that sort of thing.[/nq]
I always have problems with single quotes when it comes to quoting a paragraph of text that has quoted text within it. Somehow I feel that I should place double quotes around the whole thing, and then go through the paragraph hunting down the internal double quotes and changing them to single quotes. Yet I can't really recall ever being taught that I must do so. Could I just slap single quotes around the whole paragraph and leave it at that? And suppose the paragraph end coincides with the closing quote of quoted text?
"Mark twain once remarked that 'America and England are two countries separated by a common language'"
That triplet at the end makes me wince...

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]If you quote a sentence, then the period goes inside, ... tend towards using single quotes for that sort of thing.[/nq]
[nq:1]I always have problems with single quotes when it comes to quoting a paragraph of text that has quoted text ... that 'America and England are two countries separated by a common language'" That triplet at the end makes me wince...[/nq]
You might not like it, but what else is there to differentiate multiple levels of quotes? In my .sigfile below from the novel "Fight Club", I cheat and just use double quotes and depend on the to show it's all quoted material. I'm sure this isn't the solution in any serious situation.

"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world?s tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street. A real opera of death, that?s what you?re going to get." -, "Fight Club"

Does the " go before or after the period.

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