Does the " go after the period?

Question

I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. However, in college, I'm noticing that's not always what is happening. Same as when I sometimes read news articles. For example:
She took her to the party, and she remembered saying, "have fun."

I've seen it as:
She took her to the party and she remembered saying, "have fun".

There are others that I can't think of examples for. I'd ask a prof., but it's summer so there's no school.
Also is grammar use different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. However, in college, I'm noticing that's not always what is happening. Same as when I sometimes read news articles. For example:[/nq]
AIUI there are dialectal differences there. The British standard is to place punctuation where it makes sense. If you're quoting a whole sentence, the punctuation of that sentence goes inside the quotes. If within a sentence you quote a few words (which may still make a sentence), the punctuation is part of the outer sentence, and so it goes outside the quotes.
However, in direct speech as written in a story, punctuation tends to always go inside the quotes, with few exceptions.
[nq:1]She took her to the party, and she remembered saying, "have fun."[/nq]
I guess there's a grey area here. You could consider it as a casual quotation of a few words (if that makes sense), in which case it would be

She took her to the party, and she remembered saying "have fun".

Or you can write it story-style:
She took her to the party, and she remembered saying, "Have fun!"

Stewart.

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox, aside from its being the unfortunate victim of intensive mail-bombing at the moment. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Usenet · Answer

I (BrE) tend always to put it outside the quotes. I don't know what the "rule" is, but sometimes people are tempted to do both* (e.g. in your last example above), and it certainly *looks wrong:
She took her to the party, and she remembered saying, "Have fun!".

Mike M

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was taught in school, when I was growing up, that the ending quotation mark always goes after the period. ... are others that I can't think of examples for. I'd ask a prof., but it's summer so there's no school.[/nq]
There's a US/UK split on common practice here. And it's more a typesetting question than an actual English usage question, as I see it.
In the US, the punctuation goes within the quotes. The UK rule I'm not so clear on, but at least sometimes it goes outside the quotes (when it naturally belongs there).
As a programmer, writing documentation for my programs, I found the US practice unusable. When I say
Now type "exit".
I mean to say you type the 4 letters, and not the period. If I wrote it as
Now type "exit."
to conform to the normal US usage, it would be incorrect.
[nq:1]Also is grammar use different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?[/nq]
Clauses.

David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Pics: Dragaera/Steven Brust:

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]There's a US/UK split on common practice here. And it's more a typesetting question than an actual English usage question, as I see it.[/nq]
What about handwritesetting? :-)
Maybe some would compromise by writing the fullstop or comma directly under the quote..
[nq:1]In the US, the punctuation goes within the quotes. The UK rule I'm not so clear on, but at least sometimes it goes outside the quotes (when it naturally belongs there).[/nq]
It seems that question marks and exclamation marks always go where they naturally belong, but full stops and commas are less clear-cut. With brackets, OTOH, they always go where they naturally belong.

The Epinions email alerts do look odd to me in this respect:
"A 2004 Look At the Gameboy Advance SP: More Features At What Cost?," an opinion on: Nintendo Game Boy Advance SP Console by kjell1979 Pros: small, folds up, backlit, built in rechargable battery Cons: no built-in earphone jack, no batteries, battery life is less than old GBA
http://www.epinions.com/content 146717970052/s ~na
I don't think I've yet seen a review title that really does end with a comma..
[nq:1]As a programmer, writing documentation for my programs, I found the US practice unusable. When I say Now type "exit". ... period. If I wrote it as Now type "exit." to conform to the normal US usage, it would be incorrect.[/nq]
Yes. And just imagine if C let you do something like

char *qwert = "Hello, world!;"
printf("%s ," qwert;)
[nq:2]Also is grammar use different in classes like philosophy. I now basically put commas wherever there's a pause. Any tips for proper comma usage?[/nq]
[nq:1]Clauses.[/nq]
- Setting apart additional information
- Delimiting adjectives describing the same noun
- Delimiting items in a list within a sentence, except for the last two - Delimiting the last two items in a list within a sentence, when the items are long enough to deserve one
- Delimiting the last two items in a list, according to some people's style.

I've probably missed off one or two. But it's done to death in books like /What's the Good Word?/ and /Eats, Shoots and Leaves/.

Stewart.

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox, aside from its being the unfortunate victim of intensive mail-bombing at the moment. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]As a programmer, writing documentation for my programs, I found the US practice unusable. When I say Now type "exit". ... period. If I wrote it as Now type "exit." to conform to the normal US usage, it would be incorrect.[/nq]
That's why real tech writers use a distinctive
typeface, and no quote marks, for code strings
and literals.
If they don't have distinctive typefaces available, the best solution is usually to put literals on a separate line, indented, with no quote marks.
Programmers who write documentation for users
(as distinct from other programmers) invariably
mess it up.
User documentation is too important to leave
to programmers.
Is Dyer-Bennet a fairly common surname over
there, or are you related to the famous one?

Michael West
Tech writer

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It seems that question marks and exclamation marks always go where they naturally belong, but full stops and commas are less clear-cut. With brackets, OTOH, they always go where they naturally belong.[/nq]Is there a rationale for this? Given that semicolon is intermediate in meaning between comma and full stop, one might assume that any rule that applied equally to the outer pair would apply to the inner one as well, but in this case it doesn't. The Chicago Style Manual says the exceptions are colons, semicolons, question marks and exclamation points exactly the same set that in modern French typography have to be preceded by a hard space (I think this was also true in English-language typography before the 20th Century, but it's certainly obsolete in English now).

In French typography, the explanation, if you can call it that, is that you need a space before any punctuation mark that consists of more than one mark on the paper (; : ? !) but not for one that consists of just one (. ,). Is this the rule underlying US practice about placing of quotation marks, or is it something lost in the mists of time?
[nq:1]And just imagine if C let you do something like char *qwert = "Hello, world!;" printf("%s ," qwert;)[/nq]
I thought C allowed you to type just about anything without getting an error message? (That's why I much prefer Pascal; one of the reasons, anyway).
athel

Athel Cornish-Bowden
http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/homepage.htm

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]That's why real tech writers use a distinctive typeface, and no quote marks, for code strings and literals. If they don't have distinctive typefaces available, the best solution is usually to put literals on a separate line, indented, with no quote marks.[/nq]
How would you know that there wasn't meant to be a trailing space or two? :-)
Stewart.

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox, aside from its being the unfortunate victim of intensive mail-bombing at the moment. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]As a programmer, writing documentation for my programs, I found ... conform to the normal US usage, it would be incorrect.[/nq]
[nq:1]That's why real tech writers use a distinctive typeface, and no quote marks, for code strings and literals.[/nq]
You may be surprised to know that, when I was contending with that problem, we didn't have access to printers with multiple typefaces. Documentation files shipped with a product had to be in straight ASCII text.
[nq:1]If they don't have distinctive typefaces available, the best solution is usually to put literals on a separate line, indented, with no quote marks.[/nq]
Which I often ended up doing. Sure makes the document longer.
[nq:1]Programmers who write documentation for users (as distinct from other programmers) invariably mess it up. User documentation is too important to leave to programmers.[/nq]
Given a choice I'd certainly rather let somebody else deal with it. But something is better than nothing. And the same formatting issues came up even when writing for other programmers.
[nq:1]Is Dyer-Bennet a fairly common surname over there, or are you related to the famous one?[/nq]
Not common much of anywhere, we're all related; Richard was my uncle. (The name was created by my great-grandfather, in England.)
David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Pics: Dragaera/Steven Brust:

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Is Dyer-Bennet a fairly common surname over there, or are you related to the famous one?[/nq]
[nq:1]Not common much of anywhere, we're all related; Richard was my uncle. (The name was created by my great-grandfather, in England.)[/nq]
Well, I'm honoured to make your (virtual) acquaintance. His art was important to me when I was growing up
(to whatever extent I actually did that, yada yada).

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Is there a rationale for this? Given that semicolon is intermediate in meaning between comma and full stop, one might ... (I think this was also true in English-language typography before the 20th Century, but it's certainly obsolete in English now).[/nq]
In the old days, semicolons and colons had to be preceded by a space, and followed by two spaces. Not sure if there was any rule on hardness though.
[nq:1]I thought C allowed you to type just about anything without getting an error message? (That's why I much prefer Pascal; one of the reasons, anyway).[/nq]
Indeed. And there are even one or two C compilers that allow you to type nothing without getting an error message.
Have you looked at D?
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/
Stewart.

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox, aside from its being the unfortunate victim of intensive mail-bombing at the moment. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

Does the " go after the period?

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