Does anyone know?

Question

Would anyone please help me with etymology of 'inturned', e.g. His ashes will be inturnrd at...Thank you very much in advanceK.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Would anyone please help me with etymology of 'inturned', e.g. His ashes will be inturnrd at...[/nq]
You may have conflated "inter" (bury) with "inurn" (put in an urn).

Once you spell them right, the answer becomes much easier, perhaps even obvious:
"inter," meaning "to bury," comes from
(Old French) enterrer*
(Late Latin) interrare
(Latin) in (=into) terra (=the earth)**
*Provincal and Spanish have "enterrar," while Italian has "interrare" ** Latin also has "inhumare" (=inhume) also meaning to bury, but into the "humus" (=ground) instead of "terra" (=earth).
"inurn" (=to put into an urn) is just "in" + "urn".

Martin Ambuhl

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Would anyone please help me with etymology of 'inturned', e.g. His ashes will be inturned at...[/nq]
[nq:1]You may have conflated "inter" (bury) with "inurn" (put in an urn). Once you spell them right, the answer becomes ... "humus" (=ground) instead of "terra" (=earth). "inurn" (=to put into an urn) is just "in" + "urn". Martin Ambuhl[/nq]
Thank you very much Sir, for your answer. As English is not my first language,
may I ask you another question, or two?

1. What do I 'conflate or not 'conflate' in this context?
2. Could you please show me how I may justify adding 't' between 'in' and'urn'?

3. Would you please give me a dictionary, or some other ref. source for theword "my ashes will be "inturned" at...

4. Why this word (to) 'inturn' is not in a dictionary?

Thank you very much Mr. Ambuhl
K.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]You may have conflated "inter" (bury) with "inurn" (put in ... an urn) is just "in" + "urn". Martin Ambuhl[/nq]
[nq:1]Thank you very much Sir, for your answer. As English is not my first language, may I ask you another question, or two? 1. What do I 'conflate or not 'conflate' in this context?[/nq]
As I said, you may have conflated "inter" with "inurn" to yield the previously non-word (in this context) "inturn."
[nq:1]2. Could you please show me how I may justify adding 't' between 'in' and 'urn'?[/nq]
You "justify" stealing the "t" from "inter" and sticking it into "inurn" by simply doing it. There is no other external justification.
[nq:1]3. Would you please give me a dictionary, or some other ref. source for the word "my ashes will be "inturned" at...[/nq]
No, I can't give references for things which were not words (in the given context) before you used them.
[nq:1]4. Why this word (to) 'inturn' is not in a dictionary?[/nq]
Because it is (was) not a word in this context. The term "inturn" does exist in other contexts. It is, however, "in" + "turn" and refers to a curling in. In the the 17th century it was used in wrestling and has been since the 18th century used in curling. It did not refer to putting ones ashes somewhere before you so used it.
[nq:1]Thank you very much Mr. Ambuhl[/nq]
I hope you had better luck understanding what I wrote this time. If it is not clear, that's my fault, and I apologize.

Martin Ambuhl

Usenet · Answer

Why then, this word "inturned", is currently being used? Being used Improperly? For example in:
http://www.georgeneville.com/newsupdates.htm
James Franklin Clauson was born on 8 Mar 1933 in Canton, So. Dakota. He died on 3 Jun 1998 in Palmer, Alaska. His ashes will be inturned at Arlington National Cemetery later.
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/u/s/Glenn-W-Gustafson/FAMO2-0001/d16.htm

Thanks again
PS. Am I in error using it?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Why then, this word "inturned", is currently being used? Being used Improperly? For example in: http://www.georgeneville.com/newsupdates.htm James Franklin Clauson was ... So. Dakota. Hedied on 3 Jun 1998 in Palmer, Alaska. His ashes will be inturned at Arlington National Cemetery later.[/nq]
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/u/s/Glenn-W-Gustafson/FAMO2-0001/d16.htm
[nq:1]Thanks again PS. Am I in error using it?[/nq]
Though Martin Ambuhl has explained this clearly, I will try another approach.
The word "inturned" is not a real English word, and its use is either a simple typographical mistake or due to the writer's ignorance. It will therefore not be found in a dictionary. Yes, you would be in error if you used it.
After a cremation, the ashes are often placed in a small container called an "urn": that is, the ashes may be "inurned". This would be done either at the crematorium or by the funeral director's staff. It would not be part of a ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery.
After being inurned, the ashes may be buried at a cemetery: the usual word for describing this ceremony is "interment" - the ashes are "interred". I think this is what the web-site writers intended.
Sometimes a cemetery has a "columbarium", a building with many small recesses into which urns may be placed for a period or permanently. In Britain, at least, the ashes of the dead may not be kept together in any of these ways. They are often scattered in the cemetery grounds, or at sea, or in some place much loved by the deceased person, and left for the elements to disperse. The word "interred" is not suitable for either of these procedures, because it means "buried in the ground".

As Martin suggested, the made-up word "inturned" seems to be a confusion between "inurned" and "interred". Another common error is to confuse "interred" with "interned", which is used for the imprisonment of captured enemy soldiers, or civilians thought to be sympathetic to the enemy, sometimes for the duration of a war, sometimes (for civilians) briefly until they can establish their loyalty.
Alan Jones
Alan Jones

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Why then, this word "inturned", is currently being used? Being used Improperly? For example in: Thanks again PS. Am I in error using it?[/nq]
[nq:1]Though Martin Ambuhl has explained this clearly, I will try anotherapproach. The word "inturned" is not a real English word, ... writer's ignorance. It will therefore not be found in a dictionary. Yes, you would be in error if youused it.[/nq]
Really? You mean, if a dictionary tomorrow, or a month from now, decides to list the word "inturned", then, only then, it will be smart to use it? Are all these people in 'error'(illiterate, or stupid)?
1. "Henry E. Prentiss Jr., 76, long-time resident and past City Councilmanof Ketchikan passed away at the Veterans' Hospital in Phoenix, AZ on February 10, 2001. His ashes were inturned at Ketchikan on April 28, 2001." http://www.fredsplace.org/

2. In cremations the ashes may be inturned or buried or scattered andprayers should be adapted for the different circumstances.

http://www.nccg.org/147.html
3. James Franklin Clauson was born on 8 Mar 1933 in Canton, So. Dakota. Hedied on 3 Jun 1998 in Palmer, Alaska. His ashes will be inturned at Arlington National Cemetery later.
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/u/s/Glenn-W-Gustafson/FAMO2-0001/d16.htm
4. http://www.georgeneville.com/newsupdates.htm

Sorry for 'flogging a dead horse', but a lexicologist's (authoritative) answer is important to me.
K.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Though Martin Ambuhl has explained this clearly, I will try another[/nq]
[nq:1]approach.[/nq]
[nq:2]The word "inturned" is not a real English word, and ... in a dictionary. Yes, you would be in error ifyou[/nq]
[nq:1]used it. Really? You mean, if a dictionary tomorrow, or a month from now, decidesto list the word "inturned", then, ... So. Dakota.He died on 3 Jun 1998 in Palmer, Alaska. His ashes will be inturned at Arlington National Cemetery later.[/nq]
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/u/s/Glenn-W-Gustafson/FAMO2-0001/d16.htm
[nq:1]4. http://www.georgeneville.com/newsupdates.htm Sorry for 'flogging a dead horse', but a lexicologist's (authoritative) answer is important to me.[/nq]
That last website is interesting, but I couldn't find a location using the word in question (either inturned or interred).
Especially interesting is that genes and diet can be ignored in the classification of diabetes as a service-connected disability. But I don't object. My brother's paranoid schizophrenia diagnosis was accepted, after many years of struggle, as a 100% service-connected disability.

My only precaution about using "inturned" based on its frequency on the web is that obituaries are some of the least proofed items in newspapers (even classifieds get better treatment), since the editors assume the funeral directors have direct contact with the families of the deceased. Private genealogies likewise are seldom proofread.
For my part, I find "inturned" an ideal word to describe a pigeontoed condition he walks with his toes inturned.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Though Martin Ambuhl has explained this clearly, I will try another[/nq]
[nq:1]approach.[/nq]
[nq:2]The word "inturned" is not a real English word, and ... in a dictionary. Yes, you would be in error ifyou[/nq]
[nq:1]used it. Really? You mean, if a dictionary tomorrow, or a month from now, decidesto list the word "inturned", then, only then, it will be smart to use it? Are all these people in 'error'(illiterate, or stupid)?[/nq]
(snip examples of use of "inturn" meaning "inter")
They were in error, but that is no basis for calling them stupid (and I prefer to restrict "illiterate" to "unable to read or write, so I wouldn't call them illiterate, either).
[nq:1]Sorry for 'flogging a dead horse', but a lexicologist's (authoritative) answer is important to me.[/nq]Would anyone who reads this newsgroup consider himself a lexicologist, I wonder? In any case, whether you should use a given word is, as they say, a judgment call. Dictionaries represent one sort of authority, but they will not list a word as an entry until it has fulfilled certain conditions. For example, Jesse Sheidlower an editor of the Oxford English Dictionary said, during a discussion of the possible inclusion of the term "bling-bling," that "A term that has a reasonable number of examples from a wide variety of sources is going to be likely to be added.

There aren't any precise numbers that I can give, but a term like 'bling-bling' it may come from rap music, but it's widespread now in a variety of media is likely to be added."(1) Even then, as Mr. Sheidlower points out, the OED is a historical dictionary, and a word which they list may well no longer be in use. And general dictionaries also include some entries, such as "irregardless," which are nonstandard and listed as such. If you are a non-native speaker of English, you should avoid using such words until you have an adequate understanding of how they are used.

(I speak French as a second language, so I know how it is to be careful when using slang in a foreign language I tend to be pretty conservative about it.)
It's not enough, however, that a word appear in numerous sources. It must not be a simple error of the type of "inturn" or "teh" for "the." It must be the word the writer intended to use. Sometimes such errors do become entries in dictionaries, such as "irregardless" and "miniscule" for "minuscule." In fact, the editors of the Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, while mentioning in a usage note that "miniscule" "continues to be widely regarded as an error" do not themselves label it as nonstandard. The word "teh" may someday end up in the dictionary, because it is now used quite deliberately in some circumstances:
From *The Eqsford Dictionary,* which is a sort of slang dictionary, at http://cl4.org/write/humour/eqsford/
"teh, (pronounced tay ) adj. a lame form of the, a, or an ; sometimes used to force a verb or adjective to be a noun ("This game is teh sux0r"). (Mistyping of the )"
I predict that "to inturn" will never be a standard usage. I also predict that if you took a dictionary and pointed out to the writers who use it the possibility that they may have conflated "to inter" with "to inurn," you would find yourself talking to some very embarrassed writers.
Note:
(1) From the article "'Bling-bling' on track to OED" by Oliver Moore, at

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030501.wordsd0501/BNStory/

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Usenet · Answer

~~snip~~
[nq:2]Really? You mean, if a dictionary tomorrow, or a month ... His ashes will be inturned at Arlington National Cemetery later.[/nq]
[nq:1]http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/u/s/Glenn-W-Gustafson/FAMO2-00 01/d16.htm[/nq]
[nq:2]4. http://www.georgeneville.com/newsupdates.htm Sorry for 'flogging a dead horse', but a lexicologist's (authoritative) answer is important to me.[/nq]
~~snip~~
[nq:1]My only precaution about using "inturned" based on its frequency on the web is that obituaries are some of the ... assume the funeral directors have direct contact with the families of the deceased. Private genealogies likewise are seldom proofread.[/nq]
Given the quotes, though, I can't help wondering if there's some specialised use going on in the funeral business with "inturned".

Combining "interred" and "inurned" "int'urned", so to speak could conceivably be a useful term for urns which are buried rather than kept above ground.
(I may be reading too much into a simple error, but I'd want to make sure that there's not some rationale for the word appearing before I conclude the writers are slapdash.)

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]On 01 Dec 2003, Pat Durkin wrote[/nq]
[nq:1]~~snip~~[/nq]I don't think it is worth the cost of an in-state long distance telephone call, but maybe at the next funeral or family reunion I attend, at which my niece's husband or one of his family participates, I may just remember to ask if this is funerary jargon. They operate 7 or 8 funeral parlors and must really be aware of the proper vocabulary. However, I don't know how many of them have any language usage credits that I would respect, so I am not sure I would find their answers useful.

They do use the word "cremains" as if it were a standard in the real world, and so it may have become. That, I accept as jargon. "Inturned", without better credentials, I classify with "nucular" often used and accepted, but somehow eyebrow-raising to people who care about words (us snobs).

Does anyone know?

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions