Different between "I wish I could've had..."

Question

Hello.I want to know what's the different between these 3 sentences?1. If we could've had a second chance...2. If we had a second chance...3. If we could have a second chance...

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

1. If we could've had a second chance... Incorrect. If we had had a second chance, ... (but we didn't)

2. If we had a second chance... OK. The speaker imagines the hypothetical case

of having a second chance.

3. If we could have a second chance... OK. The speaker imagines the hypothetical case

of being permitted to have a second chance

Note also that you have not given complete sentences. The meaning may differ depending on how the sentence continues, so you always have to give the whole sentence if you want a good answer to your question.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks.

I cited the 1st sentence from a game dialogue, which confused me.

however, not before Cristina showed him the pendant he had given her, which she had kept for the past twenty-two years out of a desire that they "could have had a second chance."

CSnyder · Answer

CalifJim1. If we could've had a second chance... Incorrect. If we had had a second chance, ... (but we didn't)

2. If we had a second chance... OK. The speaker imagines the hypothetical case
of having a second chance.

3. If we could have a second chance... OK. The speaker imagines the hypothetical case
of being permitted to have a second chance

Note also that you have not given complete sentences. The meaning may differ depending on how the sentence continues, so you always have to give the whole sentence if you want a good answer to your question.

CJ

CJ,

I disagree that 1) is necessarily wrong. For example, what if someone wrote "We tried our damndest, but we still couldn't take Pork Chop Hill that day. If we could've had a second chance in the afternoon with fresh troops and the sun at our backs we might've been able to regain the crest, but there were no fresh men to be had, not after eight uninterrupted hours of charging into and being chewed up by that meat grinder." That seems, to me, to be a perfectly legitimate use of the phrase.

CalifJim · Answer

CSnyderIf we could've had a second chance in the afternoon ...

Hmm. Interesting case. I take it to mean

If it had been possible for us to have a second chance ...

Maybe you're taking it to mean

If we had been given a second chance ... / If a second attempt had been made ...

CJ

CSnyder · Answer

No, that's what I take it to mean also.  What do you think is wrong with that?

CalifJim · Answer

If we could have had a second chance, ...

~ If it had been possible to have a second chance, ...

CSnyderWhat do you think is wrong with that?

After thinking about it some more, I guess I'd have to say that technically it's grammatically correct, but I still feel that it's semantically odd. To my ear there's something unnecessarily nuanced there - or something redundant. Two different approaches come to mind in thinking about how to explain it. One applies generally and has to do with the nuancing; the other applies to this specific example and has to do with redundancy.
__________________

We're dealing with a counterfactual.

1) If we had had a second chance (but we didn't have a second chance) ...

2) If it had been possible to have a second chance (but it was not possible to have a second chance) ...

As a matter of logic, if it was not possible to have a second chance (2), then we didn't have a second chance (1). It seems strange to my ear to draw attention to the possibility itself because if a thing isn't possible, it can't happen anyway.

In effect, if we are really not talking about anything more than the 'possibility' meaning of 'could', i.e., not the 'ability', 'opportunity', 'power', or 'permission' readings of could, then we are talking about a 'maybe'. Putting 'maybe' in an if-clause seems strange to my ear, so putting an equivalent of 'maybe' in an if-clause sounds equally strange.

If maybe we had been there, ... ~ If we could have been there, ...

If maybe we had known the answer, ... ~ If we could have known the answer, ...

If maybe we had had patience, ... ~ If we could have had patience, ...

In the situations above, we weren't there at all, we didn't know the answer at all, and we didn't have patience at all because these are counterfactuals. There's no 'maybe' or 'could have' about it. These things just didn't happen. You can't say Maybe we were definitely not therewithout creating a sort of queasy feeling. Or maybe it's just me.

_________________

What is even more strange in the particular example at hand is that 'chance' (as in 'second chance') already relates to something like could have. So if we switch gears and take an 'opportunity' reading of could have, we might give this example:

If you could have [seen the look on her face], ...

~ If you had had an opportunity [to see the look on her face], ...

Applying this pattern to our example, we have

If we could have [had a second chance], ...

~ If we had had an opportunity [to have a second chance], ...

which, I think, is uncomfortably close to

If we had had an opportunity to have an opportunity, ... or

If we had had a chance to have a chance, ...

which is why I feel there's something redundant in the original.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousThanks.
I cited the 1st sentence from a game dialogue, which confused me.

however, not before Cristina showed him the pendant he had given her, which she had kept for the past twenty-two years out of a desire that they "could have had a second chance."

Your "could have" is not in an if-clause here, so the usage is different. There is certainly nothing incorrect about this "could have". The passage means that she kept the pendant because she thought of it as a symbol of a former love which might be renewed even after such a long time.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim, could you explain what the differences in meaning are between these two sentences?

1. She kept it for twenty years out of hope that they could have had second chance.

2. She kept it for twenty years out of hope that they could have a second chance.

and would it change if the beginning instead read: "She had kept it"?

Also, this is okay, is it not? : If we could have been there we would have been there.

CSnyder · Answer

CalifJimIf we could have had a second chance, ...
~ If it had been possible to have a second chance, ...
CSnyderWhat do you think is wrong with that?
After thinking about it some more, I guess I'd have to say that technically it's grammatically correct, but I still feel that it's semantically odd. To my ear there's something unnecessarily nuanced there - or something redundant. Two different approaches come to mind in thinking about how to explain it. One applies generally and has to do with the nuancing; the other applies to this specific example and has to do with redundancy.
__________________
We're dealing with a counterfactual.
1) If we had had a second chance (but we didn't have a second chance) ...
2) If it had been possible to have a second chance (but it was not possible to have a second chance) ...
As a matter of logic, if it was not possible to have a second chance (2), then we didn't have a second chance (1). It seems strange to my ear to draw attention to the possibility itself because if a thing isn't possible, it can't happen anyway.

Just because 2 implies 1 doesn't mean 1 implies all that is implied by 2.

The "If we could have had a second chance" draws attention simultaneously to the facts that a) we did not have a second chance, and b) something actively prevented us from having a second chance, and in particular, that that something is likely to have been external to us.

"If we had had a second chance" certainly means a) but it doesn't express b) as strongly. It doesn't imply, at least to me, that we were actively prevented from having a second chance.

For example, I might say "If I had had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons."

This doesn't imply anything at all about why I didn't have a second chance at shooting the pigeons - one could add to that sentence equally by saying, e.g.:

"If I had had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons, but I didn't think it was worth my time," or "If I had had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons, but I was out of ammo."

Whereas if I said "If I could have had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons," I would never add to the sentence by saying "If I could have had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons, but I didn't think it was worth my time." I would only ever follow it up with something which had prevented me from having a second chance, as in "If I could have had a second chance, I probably would have shot more of those pigeons, but I was out of ammo."

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousCalifJim, could you explain what the differences in meaning are between these two sentences?

1. She kept it for twenty years out of hope that they could have had second chance.

2. She kept it for twenty years out of hope that they could have a second chance.

and would it change if the beginning instead read: "She had kept it"?

Also, this is okay, is it not? : If we could have been there we would have been there.

In the given context there is not really much difference between 1 and 2. In 1 the speaker says that the time for having a second chance has already passed. They did not have a second chance. In 2 the speaker says that she still believed there might be a second chance in the future.

I don't sense that it would change anything to place "She had kept it" at the beginning except that it would indicate a time even more past than the general past time of focus of the story in general.

Your last sentence is correct. You can paraphrase it as If we had had the ability to be there, we would have been there. It sounds strange that way, and we wouldn't really say it that way, but that's the general idea of the meaning.

CJ

Different between "I wish I could've had..."

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